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I think the argument is more around it being illegal so as to not be forced into playing "the bad guy". It's hard to prevent a level of entitlement and resentment if those less well parented have full access. If nobody is allowed then there's no parental friction at all.

Its unfortunate that the application of this rule is being performed at the software level via ad-hoc age verification as opposed to the device level (e.g. smartphones themselves). However that might require the rigimirole of the state forcibly confiscating smartphones from minors or worrying nepalise outcomes.


I'm saying hold parent's accountable for their children's online behavior and for their protection online, not companies (who want to profit off the kids, perverse incentive) or governments (who can barely be trusted to do this even if this was the only goal). For example if your kid starts making revenge CP of their classmates, and the parent could have reasonably mitigated or known about it, I think the parent absolutely should be held responsible.

Don't punish the rest of the web for crappy parenting and crappy incentives by companies/govts.


If we want parents to be accountable, then these platforms need to provide better tools to enable parents to do so. It is impossible to monitor the entirety of your child's behavior online through any of these platforms today. They are their own person, they make their own choices, and those choices are heavily influenced by a world the parents have increasingly less influence over, especially as they grow older.

On the flip side, I do think we should also hold companies more accountable for this. We collectively prevented companies from advertising tobacco to minors through regulation with a pretty massive success rate. These companies know how harmful social media can be on youth, and there is little to no effective regulation around how children learn about these platforms and get enticed into them.


I do not disagree with any of this, I was hoping it was implied by my original comment that this would be necessary.

This all needs to be modulated by the knowledge that some children benefit immensely from being able to hide parts of their lives from their parents, parts that their parents would disagree with greatly.

The clearest example is LGBTQ kids who want to talk to other LGBTQ kids, or enjoy LGBTQ content, without fundamentalist or just homophobic/transphobic parents finding out. Children of fundamentalist or cult members who want an escape from the cult are another common category.


I’m embarrassed to admit this hadn’t even occurred to me until I read your comment.

> I'm saying hold parent's accountable for their children's online behavior and for their protection online

You're saying the status quo and I think its fair to state you wouldn't intentionally design the status quo. Unless we have some wizard wheeze where we can easily arrest and detain or otherwise effectively punish parents without further reducing the quality of life for their children.


But it's not playing the bad guy. It's playing the good guy.

in the abstract but in the social of the home you have to be the bad guy. While good parents manage that, the bar is too high for society in general.

The bar isn't that high at all. It's just what norms you decide to set. You could make this argument for any particular parenting decision, from washing hands before food to saying no to the next desired purchase. It doesn't make sense to special-case this. At some point you're setting rules, and it's not that difficult. Just don't buy the device.

sorry but I feel like your standards are a bit higher than the average here. The bar is, and has to be extremely low, to hope for compliance.

This isn't a compliance based exercise. You can achieve compliance by setting no rules.

From the perspective of the kids you are the bad guy.

I have learned about the beauty of predicate locks. That's such a sexy way of dealing with the issue instead of just blithely funneling all writes.

how is blaming X's ai product victim blaming? It was allowing its users to generate CSA images and X's first response(s) to the problem didn't appear to take the issue seriously.

Have you tried "kill all the poor?" [0]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_4J4uor3JE


I'm noticing an increasing desire in some businesses for plausibly deniable sociopathy. We saw this with the Lean Startup movement and we may see an increasing amount in dev shops that lean more into LLMs.

Trading floors are an established example of this, where the business sets up an environment that encourages its staff to break the rules while maintaining plausible deniability. Gary's economics references this in an interview where he claimed Citigroup were attempting to threaten him with all the unethical things he'd done with such confidence that he had, only to discover he hadn't.


> it's easily the worst cloud option.

are you including Oracle in that?


I stand corrected. I'd forgotten they even have one!


> But in Europe you can drink at 14. Age of consent is also 14.

That is hilariously general. You're conflating a lot of different nations there. In practice; its different depending on the nation, consent is usually 16 and alcohol is ~18.


I was referring to Germany, the largest EU nation. But sure let's look at percentages.

40% of the EU has age of consent 14 or lower. (Germany, Italy, Portugal, etc.) 78% of the EU has it at 15 or lower (France, Sweden, Denmark, etc.)

No 'official line' at 18-21.


its more complicated than that, the age of consent you're listing doesn't necessarily universally apply and is mostly that low when both people are within that age bracket. In Germany for example the age of consent is effectively 16, its more that there's wiggle room to 14, if both parties are under 21.


weed isn't designed to be addictive. You'll find most people would be cautious about legalising heroin, meth or crack.


Weed isn't designed to be anything, but it certainly is addictive in the same sense that social media is. There is no physical addiction (which is also true for TikTok), but there are definitely people that are hooked on it.


it is habit forming, but its not designed to be, by some of the brightest minds of a generation.


> just a random schmuck

if you've even on this website you're a tiny niche of the population. You like text? Check out the weirdo over here... oh wait that's all of us.


> What Europe does for me: Makes me click "Accept cookies"

that's only because the implementation of the law is poor and advertisers drag their heels in having it as a brower-level setting. Not helped by the fact that advertisers run one of the biggest browsers and fund one of the next biggest.


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