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Is this data normalised to account for differences in traffic/popularity of the HN platform between 2008 - 2024?

Reason being: If the distributions of user types have changed over time (e.g. 2010 having a higher % of more entrepreneurial / founder type users vs employee-type fokls [like myself] looking for their next gig) then it could skew the results no?

Anecdotally the graph makes total sense. I'd just take the absolute ratio/differences with a pinch of salt.


I think the intuition here is: - Being surrounded by people one cannot connect with, increases the feeling that one is socially isolated and an 'outsider'. They are unable to engage with their organic natural (social) environment - Whilst being in 'a forest alone', offers the person a chance to engage with their natural environment and more easily connect with it, just by being there. You don't have to do anything but just exist in it. In a way you are accepted and do belong to that environment (genetically/instinctively). So it acts to counter feelings of 'not fitting in'.


What I object to is this: "the disconnect with nature, oneself and to a lesser extend the community". No, loneliness is not a disconnect with nature or yourself. It's a disconnect with the community.


The focus on nature might be a product of the time we live. However, the idea that loneliness is due to feelings of alienation beyond just interpersonal is a powerful one.

This is to say that loneliness can be thought of as not just a sense of lack of connection to other people but a connection to the world. This loneliness is evident because of our lack of consistency of our actions with results. People have a 'back to nature' kind of philosophy when they talk about it because that is the most common way to find the consistency - farm to table and all that.

But I think it's more broad. For example, Minecraft has the kind of consistency that makes a person feel more connected to, at least, that world because it is participatory and makes a kind of intuitive sense that our normal lives lack.

I know it seems reaching to correlate the two - in some way, it is. However, the thing a lonely person lacks is more than just an empty person to talk to. It's a deeper purpose which can be often found in activity with other people but isn't limited to it.

Some of the least lonely people are those with projects they are passionate about. They have a connection to the world that feels consistent but it isn't other people.


I think the focus on nature might be a byproduct or reaction to modern jobs, technology and creature comforts decreasing the participation people have with the world around them. This makes it easy to want to return to a time (real or not) where people lived harder but more fulfilling lives, with camping and games offering ways to act out this ideal.

Of course a desire for a return to nature is not necessarily "modern", see for example Walden, but I think the degree of disconnect has increased to the point it is harder to ignore for a larger number of people.


Have you ever played the factory building game "Factorio"?

It's an amazing lesson in scale. In the early game, it's pretty easy to recover from supply chain issues and refactor your setup to adjust to your growth needs and expansion across the land. Once you reach mid to late game, and something goes wrong, your whole factory starts to grind to halt as you try to diagnose where in the whole system things have clogged up, you need to measure and monitor throughput to make sure you are producing the materials needed for consumption by other machines at a rate that is sustainable. Refactoring at this point really means shutting most of it down and building from the ground up again.

Kind of like humanity 100s & 1000s of years ago. Most of life was localized, food, raw materials. We were not over fishing the seas or pushing the soils to the limit. The scale of humanity now, is such that all the supply chains, food and resource requirements depend on such a plethora of things running as they have been, uninterrupted (gas, food, water supplies, raw materials, spare parts).

That is why this argument about "climate disasters in the past" really never made sense to me. This is an entirely different game.

And yes, "humanity" may survive. But just like the factory that stops working that needs to be largely deconstructed and re-built, a lot of people will be unnecessarily plunged into hardship, famine and probably death. Economies and societies will be affected in ways we really can't imagine.

The question then is, what will humanity and society look like after? And what will our successors and future generations think of their ancestors who had the time, knowledge and the technology to ease or circumvent their suffering.


"You need scalable enterprise cloud solutions for digital business processes while maintaining complete data integrity?"

Nitpicking here, but my god, can German companies/universities/organizations please start paying for native English speakers to do their copy-writing and STOP translating directly from German?

It's "Do you need". Not "You need..."

This is the typical translation of the German marketing "Du brauchst <blah>?" or "Du bist ein <blah>? Dann...". I see pattern this all the time, such as "You are a student who wants to work on innovating projects? Then apply...".

This may sound like a rant, but I genuinely think these little details would go a long way to actually showing that the German economy does have some sort of international mindset. This persistence in sticking to these wrong ways just makes me think that 'OK this is another conservative old-school minded German company trying to play unicorn'. If there's no attention to detail or care for the little things on your front-page marketing website - your first contact with your customer - it just leaves me with a bad feeling about the parts I don't see.

I don't know why it frustrates me enough to write a comment in the middle of the day, I guess I really can't understand how global German corporations still, as a rule all make this same error, which I suspect is just the tip of the iceberg of a larger symptom of not wanting to think outside/beyond the DACH bubble. And I feel a sense of sadness that such a country with great prospects just drags its feet lazily into the the future.

Edit: I also see this all the time in Email correspondence, you can immediately tell if a person is a native German speaker because they don't capitalize the first letter in an English email after "Dear X, we are writing <blah>" (which would be 100% correct in German, but somehow no one teaches this in English classes in Germany that in English it is capitalized). For a country that loves rules, this drives me mad.

Edit2: This is definitely a rant and it triggered me emotionally for some odd reason. I concede that my interpretation is quite exaggerated, so please do excuse me! I'll leave the comment however because I'm curious to know whether any others feel the same way.

Edit3: I will also say that translating between German and English is hard as there are some fundamental differences in their structure. There are very colloquial ways to say or not say certain things. That is why native speakers are essential for such things.

Edit4: Please take this comment with a pinch of salt. This is the rant of an fatigued expat who decided to blow some off steam about the oddities of their host country that drive them bananas. For posterity, I will say there at least 10 amazing wonderful things about German culture that I love, for each odd cultural thing. But you know, at some point when you see something for the umpteenth time, something snaps inside of you and it all comes out, especially on a mid-week day like a Wednesday.


You are probably right, but on the other hand, correct English or not, anyone who cares will read "blah, blah, blah, skip, skip, skip, where are the actual specs?".


Yeah, that was my issue as well. Grammar aside, that sentence is so full of corporate-speak as to be virtually meaningless. It might as well just be in German.


Yes! The usual corporate websites are worthless and don't present information. Every non-profit, club, or community provides a humble but clear website with the required information and menu! Look at that bloated visual rich websites:

    www.ibm.com
    www.siemens.de
    www.salesforce.com
What is wrong? The "About" must be at the top, the things you provide must be linked with some words at the top or left. They put their images, much Java-Script, and useless stuff across the homepage.

The English wording? A minor problem. I'm thankful that Andrew explains what is wrong and how to fix it! As a German, I'm annoyed by Germans who use every chance to tell other people that their English is much better (than mine).


This goes beyond a nitpick into reactionaryism, in my opinion.

I am a native English speaker who has lived and worked in many countries around the world. In some of those countries English was the primary language, in others it was formalized in the workplace as the business language, in others it was just a lingua franca used by immigrants and expats of many different backgrounds to communicate with one another. One of the best things about English is that it easily adapts to all these roles. It's a flexible language, and there are many different ways to express the same thing. I believe that's one of the reasons why it is so popular as a second language.

English as it is spoken in the professional sphere in Germany is different to the English as it is spoken in the professional sphere in the US or Canada or England or Australia, and that's fine. Ditto India, Singapore, Philippines, South Africa... Unlike Spanish, French, Chinese etc there is no central regulator that defines how the English language is supposed to be used. Grammar can change depending on where you are. English speakers all over the world essentially understand one another, despite using different structures and idioms.

While it is true that completely bastardized grammar can become more difficult to understand, and may result in the language being spoken getting classified more as a pidgin or creole, I don't think it's especially helpful to "nitpick" over this particular issue - a sentence structure that is easily understandable by anyone in the world who can speak English. If "do" gets dropped by English language speakers in the context of questions, what's the big deal? Especially in written language where we use a question mark anyway. Who cares?


Right.

I really recommend "Oxford English: a guide to the language" by Ian Dear. It is/was published by Oxford University Press but if you look around on eBay, Abebooks, amazon secondhand etc., you can often find a very cheap "IBM Edition" -- they co-published it along with a dictionary of quotations (presumably they helped compile the latter).

It's a really fantastic volume that goes into such detail about Indian Standard English, for example, that it will make you love English even more.


> international mindset

The international mindset is to be tolerant with non-native speakers. I find it perfectly ok when a German company uses expressions that hint at their origin. Similarly, I'm not bothered when a British company uses British words or a Texas company uses expressions that are typical for their region.

What triggers me, however, is when people misspell expressions in ways that reveal that they have no clue about where the expression comes from. For example, if someone tries to sound smart by using the latin expression "per se" but actually spells it "per say", that reveals to me that they are probably not as educated as they want to appear.


> if someone tries to sound smart by using the latin expression "per se" but actually spells it "per say", that reveals to me that they are probably not as educated as they want to appear.

That's a nice eggcorn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggcorn


As a student of both German and English, this mistake looks weird to me, as you are supposed to start the question with the verb in German (Brauchst du ...?), and this acts as a pretty good reminder to translate the question with the do in English.


Agreed, as a poor student of German, I'd say "Brauchst du...?" is correct and your German 101 teacher will mark you down for anything else. "Du brauchst...?" is informal, and OK in advertising copy, but "You need...?" in English is an even lower, more informal register than that.


Putting the verb second is pretty common in German advertisement, not really unusual.


Agreed, it strikes me not as particularly German bad English, but generic bad English. One sees that particular bad construction all the time.


I understand where you're coming from - that companies of this size should be able to afford native English translators, especially if they're internationally facing.

But I think that most people (in the international business community) don't notice the details your talking about, so in the end, it really doesn't make sense to pay for a translator. I live in Germany, and even my most brilliant German friends (with basically native English skills) cannot grasp the subtle differences of when to use "this", "that", or "it" (as in, "this one time at band camp" vs "that one time at band camp", "it's awesome" vs "that's awesome" vs "this is awesome"). It's a dead give away, but almost nobody would ever know except native speakers.


> Edit: I also see this all the time in Email correspondence, you can immediately tell if a person is a native German speaker because they don't capitalize the first letter in an English email after "Dear X, we are writing <blah>"

I don’t get it, which part is supposed to be capitalized, “dear” or “we”? As a native English speaker the sentence looks correct as it’s written. Or maybe I have bad attention to detail.


Both. The greeting is a separate entity and despite ending in a comma or semicolon is not part of the first sentence of the body of the email. This is inherited from English standards for writing letters on actual paper. Unless it's being graded for a class in school, is part of some official communication, or is going to a copy editor, though, it probably doesn't actually bother anyone if this convention is flouted.


"Dear Ms. Smith,

We would like to inform you..."

vs

" Dear Ms. Smith,

we would like to inform you..."


But if you write it on one line, the capitalization of We is definitely wrong.

However you can always tell your correspondent is German by their capitalization of second-person pronouns! Also the awkward use of "kind regards" because they can sense that "with friendly greetings" doesn't sound right.

"Dear Ms. Smith, we would like to inform You that Your cloud subscription will soon be expiring. Please send Your payment by registered letter to..... Kind Regards, Dieter" ;-)


Thanks. I haven't been taught this rule but my brain seems to associate the capitalization requirement with the newline rather than the salutation itself.


Mail in iOS capitalises it automatically, which drives me nuts when writing in German. (Look, it's not a new sentence, why should I capitalise it?)


My logic/rationalization is that even though there's no period after the "Dear,\n", the newline makes it a separate paragraph and therefore a separate sentence.


> I also see this all the time in Email correspondence, you can immediately tell if a person is a native German speaker because they don't capitalize the first letter in an English email after "Dear X, we are writing <blah>" (which would be 100% correct in German, but somehow no one teaches this in English classes in Germany that in English it is capitalized).

TIL thanks.

Sadly once you are in the professional world, nobody correct you anymore, so you can't improve/fix your English easily.


Normally I wouldn't, but seeing as your post is about being corrected in English, I'll correct you.

>nobody correct you anymore

Should be "nobody corrects you anymore"


What you say is write and I am guilty of that too. I would feel very rude or out of place telling a colleague of mine to capitalize the first letter after Dear X. Even if I wanted to. So I just write my reply correctly and hope they notice :)


You are right, I do that too :) It's a bit passive aggressive but more acceptable in professional settings.


You are talking up an 'international mindset', but what you are writing here goes against that. They are not writing native english. They are writing ESL. A true international mindset is accepting that the english the people of the world write to each other is not the same english as british people speak.

Would you also have corrected it if had been text written by Nigerians or others that use a creole or dialect of english?


Customers have hunger for German copy-writing!


Ze money goes into ze technologie, nicht into ze marketing, jawohl!


>you can immediately tell if a person is a native German speaker because they don't capitalize the first letter in an English email

Pretty bold claim. I bet there are many other languages where the first letter after the salutation isn't capitalized.

I also bet that some native english speakers make the same error.


The copy is fine; English does not need to written by native speakers - that is a completely distorted definition of “international mindset”.


There's also the cookie prompt (yes, headline in capitals)

> BEFORE GOING ANY FURTHER: BRIEFLY ABOUT THE PROCESSING OF YOUR DATA

But... that said, as someone who's only done a bit of German on Duolingo, I don't mind, especially for early-stage services. It says to me more work needs to be done around l10n and copywriting, but as long as they keep improving the core product, it's okay.

In fact what annoys me more than awkward English are teams that download and use generic English-language website templates, resulting in super-generic product pages.


Being international minded and being an anglosphere slave are completely orthogonal vectors


> STOP translating directly from German

Is this an option in German business culture? Are Germans open to conveying the (mere) gist of a sentence?

Ages ago, we translated our manufacturing software to German. Our German team were an absolute joy to work with. They were so thorough, they'd correct our English, and then translate to German. In other words, our German translators caught mistakes missed by our own technical writers. So awesome.

I'm not sure the reverse is even possible, culturally. Can a German marketing and PR firm accept a localized version of their message? Off the top of my head, I can't think of a German lifestyle product or consumer brand. And the German brands I do know -- BMW, Mercedes, Kraftwerk -- don't much use words for marketing. They don't need to.


> I can't think of a German lifestyle product or consumer brand

NIVEA, Braun, Miele, Bosch, Birkenstock, various chocolates ... and so on. Lots of marketing in awkward English.


Heh. True.

Let me try again...

Bullshit is hard to translate. Culturally, German branding may have comparatively less bullshit. And therefore less compulsion to translate nuance. Just describe what the product does.

Amazon recruiting will say stuff like "code ninjas needed to invent future!" Versus "get beaten like a rented mule for two years, to make Bezos even more rich, then fall over dead". (How would one translate either version?)

This LIDL/Schwartz pitch, perfectly normal for America, comes off kinda weird, like maybe satire, from a German company.


You have probably not experienced i18n of american websites


> (...) these little details would go a long way to actually showing that the German economy does have some sort of international mindset (...)

Well, I think that Germany's commercial balance shows this much better than non-native-sounding-yet-fully-correct grammar.


No, you did the right thing by ranting. You both shared some knowledge about contemporary German commerce with us and gave the company some constructive feedback for its marketing website. You're on to something here.


What if customers that are extremely sensitive to grammar rules end up being very expensive customers to keep happy? Filtering them out on the front end might be a great business move.

I imagine something like "Our customer support is being overworked by completely banal minutiae, what can we do?" We compare different intake funnels, and customers that were presented with a badly translated homepage never reach to support with such issues. Let's make sure to always run that page from now on, those customers aren't worth the hassle. Make sure they stick with AWS and bleed them dry.


Nothing odd about it. You pointed out a lack of attention to detail. I’m guessing one will find other areas of their product that show a similar lack of detail and attention.


I absolutely loved this comment. I feel total empathy not specifically with the topic, but for how you feel. I moved back to my home country (not DE) after 10years abroad and oh man, those thoughts are constantly with me. I'm doing an effort to readapt and hope it works well.


This is the comment I was waiting for :) It's strange isn't it, to suddenly be negatively receptive to something that you never noticed bothered you in the past.


I totally empathize.

When American websites are translated to other languages, sometimes some things end up weird.

By the way, I feel Indians speak that way in casual conversations; "you want coffee?", "you want biscuit?" etc.


This doesn't bother me at all, especially at an individual level.

I want to make clear - it's not the language issue per se. I think native English speakers are incredibly privileged to have their language as one of if not the international language, so I could never fault a person for not speaking a foreign language well (I'm sure I butcher the German language in ways that would make Goethe himself cry out in anguish).

It's the fact that this is an international company launching a product in a professional setting. Again, I don't quite know why this bothers me so much, but I feel its within the context of other cultural things I experience.


I feel like the other way around it's also pretty bad, if not worse. Technical things written in, or translated to, German sound so boring and stiff that you want to immediately run away.


> This may sound like a rant, but I genuinely think these little details would go a long way to actually showing that the German economy does have some sort of international mindset.

Except it doesn’t.


I think you're onto something. So often, Germans think they know English and don't bother to have a native speaker proof-read their copy.


Do they intend to attract US interest? When I see a country specific TLD, I automatically assume that the company is focused on a specific region.


I'll nitpick further and say that the grammar is actually perfectly valid.. You don't believe me ?


Even if it's technically grammatical, I don't think it's something a native speaker would generally write or say.

"You need X?" works in a casual setting. But IMHO it looks pretty out of place in a more formal sentence like this with so many fancy nouns.


It could definitely be reworded to be at least easier to follow. I guess this is where Spanish is useful with the inverted question mark. ¿


There are the valid grammar rules and there is the way people of the language actually speak. The unspoken rules.

If I can read the text and guess what language the original text was in, I would argue that it's not a very good translation.


If there are unspoken rules that can't be defined then they're not rules, they're made up bullshit.


They can be defined, but nobody does so explicitly. Consider the classic example of the order of adjectives.

You can have a big brown bag, but if you have a brown big bag, something sounds wrong. You can have an excellent blueberry muffin, but not a blueberry excellent muffin. You can meet your 27-year-old Ukrainian friend, but not your Ukrainian 27-year-old friend.

Unless you majored in linguistics or learned English as a second language, you probably never once even thought about the rules of adjective order in English (and in other languages the rules are often different!). But you know them, follow them, and people who don't follow them don't sound right to native English speakers.

And there are so many weird rules like this.


I knew you were gonna mention this one and I don't think it really qualifies as it's not really an unspoken rule, it's the pretty well known and strictly defined adjective ranking order.


English: Shibboleths _all_ the way down.


It is perfectly valid indeed. This person's main complaint is that Germans, who have enough English in their society that that one might even expect dialects to form, are not putting enough effort into disguising themselves as native English speakers. I'd call it 50/50 that the people who built this product speak English at work.

This is like ranting about Microsoft's website using American spelling when clearly they're selling to British people as well, only worse. This is pretty short-sighted. To OC, please keep thoughts like this to yourself. I hope you're not doing this for all the different stylistic usages of English out there, otherwise things are not looking good for literally any Australian business.


This sort of "feels wrong" non-native yet grammatically correct use of language is precisely the kind of thing that would be fine on an internal doc where comprehension is the name of the game, but falls flat on its face on external communications where a more fuzzy "trust" is trying to be engendered.

Or to put it more abruptly - if the release marketing is so low effort they haven't even bothered to get a professional translation, it suggests the same care and attention may have been lavished on the product.


I really wonder what percentage of difficulties that stem from math are due to its representation in the symbolic language used. By that I mean, so often, I am staring at a long, condensed equation. Factored to perfection by whomever was working on developing it. I stare at it for hours and just can't figure out what's going on.

Then after much tinkering with the parameters, exploring the limits, plotting graphs, slowly I look at it and recognize what is going on and realise "gosh that is actually really F**ing simple"

I wonder how much of "learning" math is really spent on decoding the representations we are provided, rather than understanding the concept they're meant to represent.


That is a really good point. I spent some time putting ml equations into code and the code representation always seemed so much simpler to me. Many math equations seem a bit like too clever one liners in code haha


"clever one liners"

That's exactly it! It's basic clean coding style where it's better to use meaningful names and sometimes write something in 2 or 3 lines that is more interpret able than to write a perfect one-liner that no one will be able to unpack.

In this regard I almost wish we had a de-facto standard in math of presenting the 'condensed' perfect form of the equation and a more chunkier version.

What I like is that recently I saw some researchers annotating the symbols in their equations [1].

[1] https://twitter.com/sibinmohan/status/1480583840858996743/ph...


This is how all of maths is. Before you learn it, it's incomprehensible frightening gibberish. After you learn it, you wonder how anyone can not understand ideas so simple and obvious.

How to get from one state to the other is the whole problem.

The terse symbolic language is someone's best attempt to communicate the beautiful simple idea in their head. More than any other discipline, I think, mathematicians write to be understood, to be clear.


I bet the sophons are already on their way


I don't understand these negative comments about what "computers/internet" has done to me etc.

Yes, there are certainly aspects of computers, the internet and especially social networking and instant-texting that have a net negative impact on our lives.

But this argument strikes me as a "I'm such a victim" argument. Surely if you allow some device to have such a massive negative impact on your life then this would be the case even pre-90s before computers and the internet became mainstream?

- Maybe you might have spent too much time hanging out at your local bar? - Perhaps you'd have been addicted to television?

The one area, where I wholeheartedly agree and recognize the serious dangerous of the internet and computer devices is in children. The threat of cyber-bullying and indeed, rather more subtle, the attention-seeking culture of always producing content at a young age is IMO, very scary when thought of in the context that these will be future adults who didn't know better. We need to guard against these enabled social pressures like we protect kids from smoking, drugs, alcohol and even to a lesser extend (i.e. it's not illegal) addictions to things like TV, video games and other behaviors that they might fall prey to.

I guess, summed up what I am saying is: It appears that there the internet has developed a predatory nature on one's attention that extends to threaten one's social status and reputation.

Where I disagree is that - as adults - we know better and can combat this with self-discipline and by choosing our friends/social circles wisely (I don't engage with friends who constantly text or post online. I'm happy to meet but they know not to expect my participation there).

Where I agree is that, children are vulnerable to this and must be protected AND TAUGHT how to treat / interact with the internet.

Unfortunately, since this is relatively a new thing in society. We have not yet developed a solid culture around what is acceptable and what is not. Just like it is inconceivable now to smoke inside a closed room, or someone's house, I do hope that in the future it would be inconceivable to upload compromising information/pictures to random servers in foreign countries. But alas, we are not there yet.


> Surely if you allow some device to have such a massive negative impact on your life then this would be the case even pre-90s before computers and the internet became mainstream?

The mechanisms of addiction and socialization are definitely more complex than "it made me do it". I'm not saying that without the internet I would have become World President, but the technology definitely nudged me towards indulging some of the worst traits in my character. It also allowed me to tolerate situations that, probably, I should not have tolerated - which feels good in the immediate but can actually postpone a necessary reckoning. And it heavily influenced my career choices, with mixed results.

> Maybe you might have spent too much time hanging out at your local bar? - Perhaps you'd have been addicted to television?

Maybe, but those are well-known behaviors, fairly easy to spot and compensate for. Bars are actually hypersocial and promote local connections and some degree of personal expression. TV is very passive and boring, whereas on the internet there is always something new to read or do.

It wasn't until the '80s that we got a fairly solid (and popular) understanding of the mechanisms of broadcasting, some 60 years since it had become mainstream; as you said, there are a lot of things we don't know about the new world of 24h online access. Undoubtedly my life choices are ultimately my fault, but "no man is an island" cuts both ways - particularly because I see a lot of my (bad) experiences replicated in a lot of my friends.


I see your point and think you have quite a valid argument there! Some of the things you said definitely echo with my experiences. For example, I do surf the net too much because I love new information. And perhaps without that access I'd be a lot happier focusing on actual physical things in front of me.

I guess it's not as simple as boiling it down to the individual's own self-control. To some degree maybe my stance is also biased in that I want to empower myself to be the one to reduce my time online.


> It wasn't until the '80s that we got a fairly solid (and popular) understanding of the mechanisms of broadcasting

Curious what you mean by "the mechanisms of broadcasting" here--what discovery/formalization/legislation/else do you mean?


There is a massive library of analysis on the effects of broadcasting, from McLuhan to Eco. Most of it was put together in the 60s/70s and became popular outside academic circles in the 80s.


> The one area, where I wholeheartedly agree and recognize the serious dangerous of the internet and computer devices is in children. The threat of cyber-bullying and indeed, rather more subtle, the attention-seeking culture of always producing content at a young age is IMO, very scary when thought of in the context that these will be future adults who didn't know better. We need to guard against these enabled social pressures like we protect kids from smoking, drugs, alcohol and even to a lesser extent (i.e. it's not illegal) addictions to things like TV, video games and other behaviors that they might fall prey to.

This is always an interesting discussion to me as one of the first kids to really grow up online. (It still weirds me out that my childhood is illegal now.)

> Unfortunately, since this is relatively a new thing in society. We have not yet developed a solid culture around what is acceptable and what is not.

Also unfortunately, I doubt we will until Gen Z and Gen Alpha grow up and start having their own kids. I didn't really start to reckon with the bad parts of growing up online and the ways that it may have shifted my development until I was in my 30s and starting to see the same behavior in current kids and realizing 'wow, that was f'ed up.' Right now, there just aren't many adults who can speak to spending a shit ton of time online as pre-teens, and kids can smell inexperienced bullshit a mile away.

The other possible outcome is that the curriculum/culture for this will be written by people in power who have no idea what being a child on the internet is actually like + it will be written as a political football, so it will be completely ineffectual.


> Surely if you allow some device to have such a massive negative impact on your life then this would be the case even pre-90s before computers and the internet became mainstream?

Yes, but we are not living in the pre-90's. The internet is the TV/bar/etc. for us now. Some of us recognize that we not only gained but lost something as well.

And we want what we lost back.


In many ways I agree with you. I would like also to return to simpler times. Especially insta-texting (whatsapp) etc. SMS was fine for me to organise a meetup and then talk in person.

I guess my stance is more kind of to protect my mental sanity, to try and make this a "self-discipline" problem that I can control, and hence reduce my exposure/time online. That suits me but I do agree that to some degree there needs to be a wider societal change and I do agree that it can't all be placed on the individual to be super strong mentally when the internet is now literally a life necessity for operating in society in any dimension.


Do we really want a return of drinking at the bar after work?

I think a lot of social validation once came easy by mere virtue that we lived so closely to one another, and suburbia flipped that on it's head. Once it was the case that social activity required a) transport, b) money, c) time, it has become increasingly devoid from weeknights. We could remedy this by changing physical structures, but we won't.


In the U.S. we never had a "local" (Public House, Pub). But from what I understand, it was a nice way to mingle with those not necessarily in your social class, "industry".

The DMV feels to me like the only place now where I share a seat with people not like me.


Will highlight from your comments that alcohol consumption appeared to be more of a scourge before the internet. Before the world of personal leisure opened up, and after the creation of disconnected suburbia, I would guess drinking at the bar with workmates was a common extracurricular.


I can see the use case for these online password apps.

But I can't for the life of me understand why KeePass isn't the defacto gold standard.

It's secure, open source and you have control over the data. I would never for the life of me think of storing my important passwords with a company ever. Am I over reacting?


Have you ever tried 1Password ? I think most people who tried both will tell you that the experience is night and day. Cross-device, cross-app integrations, password sharing, etc. Like most old-school open source software, Keepass was built without UX in mind at all.


Not any more than the rest of us


+1

Honestly never understood why joining startups is meant to be so amazing unless 1) They are working on exactly the niche that YOU personally want to work in and 2) The startup's company culture is exactly your kind of weird/niche culture too. IMO unless it's a perfect match, you're going to have a bad time as there is less stability and diversity of ideas/experience in small startups.

I love large orgs because there are tons of characters, experienced professionals and frameworks designed to support and enable me. I can always move projects when I get bored or something isn't right.

I would join a startup however if there is something very very specific I want to build and I want to circumvent all the corporate barriers/rules to move fast and ship something. But so far, I've not felt that yet.


> I can always move projects when I get bored or something isn't right.

This comment is so underrated. In most big companies, if your manager is an asshole or the project is boring, you can always move to a different role.


As far as official protocol goes, at most places I've worked that means you can change teams after a year. They placed you on a team, so they want you there.

People who switch faster either have very accommodating leads or they feel secure enough to give an ultimatum.


I kind of torn between two opinions here.

On the one hand - an adult should be able to make their own choices regarding something like this. I mean, we're all slowly decaying day-by-day and I can understand that one might want to live while their alive and suffer the consequences of a shorter lifespan. Also sometimes one could argue it's actually encouraged not to become obsessed with _never_ doing anything that is bad for your health, we all accept that there's value in stress reduction to sometimes just go out and have an intense night with friends, order in some junk food or just do something really risky for the adrenaline rush.

On the other hand - the intense addiction factor of cigarettes is really quite terrifying and is really unprecedented when compared to other unhealthy habits. A lifelong smoker who quit once told me that the Cigarette, is more like a companion. There in the good times, (celebrate, have a cig), there in the bad, there when you wake up, take a break, or call it a day. They are optimized to be a lifelong companion and the amount of suffering caused by them (directly - to the smoker and indirectly - to loved ones impacted by their addiction) is significant enough (IMHO) to warrant questioning of its impact to human life. Alone 80-90% of lung cancer deaths are attributed to smoking [1], that isn't some minor thing at all. And although for some people cigarettes may start or may always be just a source of relaxation or indulgence occasionally on a night out, once the addiction and habits set in, it becomes a point of stress and suffering when they are not available - which IMO negates any benefits they might provide at the start. You also don't see this sort of wide spread addiction with things like cigars - which to me is a dead giveaway that they are not just some form of indulgence.

I personally would love to see them disappear and never return. I think they provide far more suffering to the individual and individuals surrounding smokers than any of the benefits could ever hope to offset.

If that's not possible, then I'd be satisfied if the addictive substances in them were highly regulated and reduced or removed entirely.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/lung/basic_info/risk_factors.htm


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