If you are reading this: I installed Fedora recently because I wanted to try it and I found the partitioning process to be absurdly complicated, compared to that of Debian or Ubuntu (ubiquity). I have several partitions of several operating systems in this disk and I was hesitant to continue because it wasn't very clear what the partitioner was about to do with my disk. Unfortunately that was months ago so I can't really describe what the problems were.
There's basically two ways to do advanced partitioning. (Of course, there's a "just do it" automated option too.)
1. I understand about disks, volumes, partitions, filesystems, and I want to build it all up.
2. I have goals (like redundancy) and would like to tell the installer to give me that from whatever resources are available.
The former works very well for sysadmins and Linux enthusiasts (the people likely to be quad-booting or whatever), but our research showed it was really painful for basically everyone else -- so we have a UI focused on the latter.
That said, we definitely want Fedora to be appealing to the former class as well. There is an Anaconda feature in the works to add a more-traditional partition manager option as well. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AnacondaBlivetGUI (It's currently targetted for F26, but I'm not sure if it's going to make that with the current schedule.)
I see what you're saying, but I suspect the top-down approach is not the cause of the usability issues with Anaconda. The problems are simply that it isn't always clear which buttons do what, which partitions are about to get zapped, and what the next action should be at any given point. It's not unusable, but it could be easier.
The Blivet GUI looks like it could fix many of these issues.
The partitioner would be absolutely fine were the system i was using intended to be a single OS machine. but mine isn't.
My issues with it are from a HCI perspective;
- the Done button is context sensitive which is rubbish.
- Select Automatically Configure Partitioning and it will go back to the Installation summary
- Select "I Will configure Partitioning" it will go into the partitioner.
- There is no Cancel button to discard all changes instead you have to go into the partitioner and hit the refresh button
- The Available space is across all disks not on a per disk basis.
- It's not immediately clear whether the plus or minus buttons in the partitioner will create partitions, delete partitions, or adding them to the installation selection.
I agree with all these criticisms. The anaconda installer, particularly the partitioning interface, is not at all intuitive. The first time I installed Fedora alongside an existing OS I thought it was really likely something would get messed up.
Debian's installer is excellent, in my experience.
In my opinion; of all the sections in an Operating System's installation program the partitioner should be the least vague of all.
At every step of the partitioning/volume management process you should be able to quickly undo or back out of your selection. only when the user is happy with the structure or layout should any change be committed, likewise there should be no ambiguity in the functionality of any aspect of it's operation.
After all it is your data you may be potentially blowing away.
It's been a while since I last installed Debian, so I can't comment on the installation experience there though I can't recall running into any issues. It was a perfectly forgettable experience. The Ubuntu installer was also excellent, and the partitioning aspect was both clean and clear when creating a custom setup.
People in this thread don't remember the NET SEND spam from Windows Messenger. (Which was a system service and had absolutely nothing to do with MSN Messenger)
You could basically do "NET SEND 12.34.56.78 my spam message" and it would appear on the screen of your victim.
Actually I liked that feature. We used to chat with each other using it when I was in school. It was definitely a right choice for Microsoft to disable the Messenger service, but I was a bit sad when it actually happened.
The point of the "Linux on the desktop" meme was that everybody would start using free, preferently GPL'd software for everything. Android is far away from that.
> The point of the "Linux on the desktop" meme was that everybody would start using free, preferently GPL'd software for everything. Android is far away from that.
I guess it depends how you look at it :) I would see it as "not using Windows" but your statement seems to be "not using any closed-source software".
It's an effort with variable goals and there are different opinions what is meant. If you ask rms he'd agree with you. :)
Yeah I recently learned from a Candadian friend that people in the US and Canada still text a lot? Outside of the US & Canada my estimate would be that 99% of people has switched to WeChat, Whatsapp and FB Messenger.
The only texts I ever recieve nowadays are automated (2FA etc...). Even though unlimited texts come with every SIM.
I am a rarity here in the U.K. as I still text, having got fed up of constantly switching IM apps. I mean, I remember when MSN Messenger was all the rage. Then Yahoo, ICQ, GTalk, Hangouts, various Jabber protocols, FaceAche, errr I mean FaceTime and Messenger, WhatsApp etc etc ad nauseum, Skype
SMS has remained the great constant throughout all these games. Turns out people don't get in touch if you don't use WhatsApp but shows how much they care eh!
If your GSM network is anything like Greece's (and I don't doubt it is, grey market devices from Spain sold here work without issue), Android automatically sets up the network settings for MMS and wireless networking. You don't have to do anything.
>as soon as you try to measure how well people are doing, they will switch to optimising for whatever you’re measuring, rather than putting their best efforts into actually doing good work
The Hawthorne effect describes how any change in environment can temporarily lead to positive effects. The sentence you quote is more akin to Goodhart's law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law).
My recommendation for any kind of serious desktop use is always Gentoo. Problems like the one you mention are much easier to solve when you can pick which versions of all packages to install and which kernel flags to enable.
I can't tell whether you are being sarcastic. Seriously.
I hate Gentoo with a passion. Being able to pick versions and set flags means that, between any two Gentoo installations, the difference is likely bigger than any two Ubuntu 16.04 installation.
I think it just creates more complexity for support scenarios.
I'd definitely not recommend it for "serious desktop use" unless you are a hardcore graybeard.
I am not being sarcastic and I use it and I have used it for years. I consider myself a "hardcore greybeard", or a neckbeard, which is what you actually meant ;P
I don't agree with the support thing though. Most Gentoo users are knowledgeable; developers are always on irc/forums lending support; certain commands such as `emerge --info' make it easy to figure out what the state of the machine is regarding flags/masks.
I really meant "graybeard". I think "neckbeard" has a negative connotation, whereas "graybeard" is just supposed to mean somebody of older age who is knowledgeable.
If any of the developers are reading this, converting the existing C code to SaferCPlusPlus[1] (a memory safe subset of C++) is probably a more expedient solution (if that's what they're looking for). (And speaking of contributing, an automatic translation (assistance) tool is in early development, and could maybe be functional in short order with a little extra motivated talent... :)
The US is, at the least to an equal extent, also where it is because of its excellent possibilities to have access to a free flow of information and stable not profit motivated institutions that allow that access. This includes libraries.
What they've oftentimes fought for since the birth of the country - powerful business interests sometimes masquerading under political campaign rhetoric of "freedom" or "justice." Whether it's over taxation or slavery, economic impetus is the seed for most conflicts in the US and in the 20th century evolved into ideological conflicts that harm US business interests.
According to some high-ranking North Korean defectors, they actually built it themselves with no direct assistant from China or Russia -- which explains why they are so crappy. Their nuclear program is still young and poorly funded.
That's why I mentioned intelligence. You need proxy wars, coups, espionage, state-funded terrorism, etc etc in other countries to maintain your power. The US excels at that.
