All these takes on European workers being too shielded are nonsense.
First of all, they're greatly exaggerated. The specific case of a large German company that is union connected doing layoffs is cherry picked. It's basically the most shielded situation possible but far from the norm in Europe as a whole.
I'm from the Netherlands myself. Up until COVID we were on a path where employers were pushing everybody into flex contracts. It's a fixed length contract (1 year with a 3 month trial period) that may or may not be extended.
Maximum flexibility for employers, minimum job security for employees.
Did this lead to some spur in growth or innovation? No.
Europe's problem isn't related to worker conditions. It's a silly thing to say considering ludicrous US tech salaries.
Silicon Valley is the result of gigantic amounts of excess (Wall street?) capital creating a tech Valhalla. A black hole ecosystem swallowing money and talent domestic and abroad. Europe doesn't have this capital and the capital we do have we probably put in US tech stocks.
It's a similar problem to US manufacturing vs Shenzen manufacturing. The Chinese government as well as many Western companies invested decades and hundreds of billions into making it the state-of-the-art factory of the world.
I get what you're saying but by current EU privacy law interpretation this approach is not allowed.
You can of course charge for services but you cannot charge people just to get rid of tracking. This is not to be confused with ads. You can run ads and offer a paid version without ads. It's about the tracking.
In a situation of supply scarcity all the market needs to do to function is to sell this limited supply. And this does not require the median citizen to be able to afford this supply. Thus the market isn't even irrational.
More so you need to generate the money that goes into stocks and other assets from somewhere. This seem to be done either by government debt or by debt against increasing home values...
People block ads and/or not pay for content because they can. Simply because it's possible. People have been conditioned to consider any and all digital content to be worth zero. Yet continue to consume it for hours on end every day.
When not paying at all is an option people will reliably pick that option. They'll even go into extremes to avoid paying. I know somebody that plays a particular mobile game about an hour each day. Every round (taking 90s or so) it's interrupted by 1-3 mins of ads. It's maddening. She suffers through this instead of paying a one-time $4.99. We're talking about somebody firmly upper middle class.
As they should. Never once have I seen any good outcome of ads on the web.
On the user end:
- People click scam download buttons or fake links and are blasted with scams or malware.
- Nobody I know has ever, not once, purchased something from an ad and been happy with it. The one person I know who did purchase something from a Facebook ad got scammed.
- The actual content people want to watch is delayed or interrupted by constant nonsense that they will never engage with.
So already there is absolutely no incentive as an end user to want ads. Then over on the content creator end:
- Because they work through clicks, ads generate a ton of bad incentives to make divisive content or just otherwise harmful content. See Elsagate for one way this manifests.
- For honest creators who make genuinely good and creative works, ads harm them by consistently underpaying them. Only the very absolute peak of content creators make a livable wage from ads alone. See the rise of Patreon and other such subscription methods that they have had to rely on to get away from ad revenue dependency.
- Ads also harm honest creators by incentivizing bad actors to steal their work, either by direct reuploads on various platforms or by simple plagiarism. See any Facebook page for stolen content or the whole James Somerton expose that happened a couple years ago for the plagiarism bit.
Many things do not give you that option, and the ads are obnoxious and invasive to privacy. If that is the only option, you will get nothing from me, and your ads will be blocked.
Furthermore if there is a content subscription involved, I will only ever consider it via Apple because I refuse to risk having to telephone someone to cancel something I signed up for online.
The well has been poisoned by an obnoxious industry and that industry is unlikely to ever gain even a modicum of respectability.
You're just retrofitting reasons to justify the behavior I describe.
Forget about those reasons. They don't matter. They can have merit or not, it's irrelevant. Because the behavior takes place regardless. When people can legally avoid paying for something whilst still consuming it, they'll do that.
The idea that if only ads were more privacy-friendly people would not block them or start paying for content at any scale is laughable. They won't. When there's a free path, people take that path.
People are making millions/year just by writing articles on Substack. Just look at the "paid leaderboards", number of paid subscribers, and multiply by 70% of the annual price of the newsletter.
Our newsletter is doing mid-6-figures. You simply can't find that content anywhere else, and I am not aware of a newsletter-piracy phenomenon. Even if it existed, I think many people would pay to have guaranteed day-1 access.
I pay quite a lot for digital content. I also run an ad blocker, because advertising as a whole is malicious and I consider my financial contributions to the digital creator economy to be sufficient.
But privacy, it’s not just ads, you’re taking information from me. Also people have tried to avoid ads since forever, trying to not record ads onto VHS for instance, this isn’t new.
The problem in your logic is that all points starts wit "I".
You're not the only stakeholder in any of those interactions. There's you, a mediator (search or LLM), and the website owner.
The website owner (or its users) basically do all the work and provide all the value. They produce the content and carry the costs and risks.
The pre-LLM "deal" was that at least some traffic was sent their way, which helps with reach and attempts at monetization. This too is largely a broken and asymmetrical deal where the search engine holds all the cards but it's better than nothing.
A full LLM model that no longer sends traffic to websites means there's zero incentive to have a website in the first place, or it is encouraged to put it behind a login.
I get that users prefer an uncluttered direct answer over manually scanning a puzzling web. But the entire reason that the web is so frustrating is that visitors don't want to pay for anything.
But the entire reason that the web is so frustrating is that visitors don't want to pay for anything.
They are already paying, it is the way they are paying that causes the mess. When you buy a product, some fraction of the price is the ad budget that gets then distributed to websites showing ads. Therefore there is also nothing wrong with blocking ads, they have already been paid for, whether you look at them or not. The ad budget will end up somewhere as long as not everyone is blocking all ads, only the distribution will get skewed. Which admittedly might be a problem for websites that have a user base that is disproportionally likely to use ad blockers.
Paying for content directly has the problem that you can only pay for a selected few websites before the amount you have to pay becomes unreasonable. If you read one article on a hundred different websites, you can not realistically pay for a hundred subscriptions that are all priced as if you spent all your time on a single website. Nobody has yet succeeded in creating a web wide payment method that only charges you for the content that you actually consume and is frictionless enough to actually work, i.e. does not force you to make a conscious payment decisions for a few cents or maybe even only fractions of a cent for every link you click and is not a privacy nightmare collecting all the links you click for billing purposes.
Also if you directly pay for content, you will pay twice - you will pay for the subscription and you will still pay into the ad budget with all the stuff you buy.
Publishers don't get paid a dime if you block the ad unless they are doing a direct ad transaction. Adtech has largely made that transaction a rarity for like 30 years.
It's not like newspapers where advertising is paid in full before publishers put stories online. It has not been that way for a long time.
Your reasoning for not accessing advertising reminds me of that scene in Arrested Development where, to hide the money they've taken out of the till, they throw away the bananas. It doesn't hide the transaction, it compounds the problem.
If publishers were getting paid before any ads ran the publishing business would be a hell of a lot stronger.
Of course, they will not get paid for me visiting the website if I block the ads, but that was not my point. People have already bought stuff and with that paid for the ad budget. And that money will be spent somewhere. Maybe someone else will see the ad that I blocked, someone who would otherwise not have seen it because the ad budget would have been exhausted. Or maybe the prices for ads go up because there are less impressions to sell. Only if companies would lower their ad budgets in response to ad blocking would there be less money to distribute. If that would be the case, then my argument would fail.
Your point is illogical. It’s like you’ve invented a theory as to how companies advertise that has zero tethering to reality.
It’s especially stupid because it doesn’t include publishers in the equation at all. It’s just you looping over yourself attempting to validate your choice for running an ad blocker.
Admit you’re doing it because you want to callously screw over publishers. You certainly haven’t put their thoughts into consideration here.
To be clear: Run an ad blocker if you want, but stop acting as if you bought those ads. The chicken dinner I ate the other night has no say how I live my life after our transaction has ended.
If I buy an iPhone, does some fraction of the price contribute to Apple's ad budget? If so, where does that money end up? What would change if I did not block Apple ads?
It’s up to them how they spend their money, not you. You can complain if they somehow damaged your product, they got your money unfairly, or were somehow doing something bad with your data, but at some point it is their money to spend how they see fit. They earned it, and they might spend it on advertising.
If I buy stuff at a grocery store, I can’t get a random bagger fired just because I feel like it. At some point the transaction ends and they ultimately continue to operate with or without your input.
I am neither complaining nor trying them what to do with their money, that looks like a complete deflection to me.
If I am buying Apple products, am I contributing to their ad budget? If so, where does that money end up? Is it likely that some of it will end up as ad revenue on some website? What difference does it make whether or not I block ads? Or the other way around, if I am visiting websites and look at Apple ads but do not buy Apple products, am I contributing to the ad revenue of the websites?
Maybe in the cosmic sense you are, in that they have a giant pile of money, and you contributed a few pennies to it, but this is not how accounting works. Your transaction and their ad budget are separate things.
Also, advertising does other things than tell you to buy something, and it doesn’t always take the form of banner ads. Apple, for example, does a ton of brand awareness advertising. Affiliate marketing often targets direct transactions. Maybe your goal is to simply start a relationship that might someday lead to a really big purchase.
Often, in the era of SaaS, people advertise to existing customers. Apple does this—they have a TV service and a music service and a cloud service.
There are plenty of reasons for them to advertise after you bought the original product.
But your original point was that customers bought the ads. Maybe they didn’t! Maybe they were given funding by a VC firm and the company decided it wanted to build an audience. Maybe they want to advocate for a political issue.
I think the biggest problem with your argument is that it has tunnel vision and sees advertising as this one dimensional thing, when in reality it takes many forms. Plenty of those forms are bad, but it is not as simple as “I bought a product, now I never want to see an Apple ad ever again.” Many businesses (Amazon, eBay) make most of their money off of customers they’ve already advertised to that they advertise to again and again.
Well, I don't give a shit about the advertising goals of Apple or anyone else, that is why I block ads. And that is also completely irrelevant, the question was whether I am screwing over websites when I am using an ad blocker. I argue not, because as a consumer I still contribute to the ad budgets that become the ad revenue of the websites. What I am not doing when I block ads is influencing how the money gets distributed among all the websites, I can live with that. And if the money is not consumer money, so what? What do I have to do with companies distributing VC money among websites?
LOL, you don’t. You really don’t. As I told you like four hours ago, ads are impression-based. Just because you bought something that helped them buy an ad doesn’t mean you did shit for my website.
I know that ads are based on impressions as I told you before, but my money still has to end up somewhere even if I am using an ad blocker. So where does it end up if not as ad revenue on some websites? You must not confuse the people paying for the ads and in turn for the ad revenue of websites by buying stuff with the people deciding how that money gets distributed among all the websites by looking at ads.
We can even go one step further, if anyone is screwing over websites, then that is the ad industry by not paying for blocked ads. I buy an iPhone and Apple takes some additional money from me to spend on advertising. I did not ask for that but I am fine with it. Now I expect Apple to spend the money they took from me on ads in order to support websites. But if the guy that Apple wants to show the ad that I paid for does not want to see it and blocks it, then I want Apple to respect that and still pay the website. I know, not going to happen, but do not put the blame on people blocking ads.
You’re describing socialism (wealth redistribution to be exact). At this point, just make that money a tax and give it to the publishers directly. Cut out the middlemen.
Well, what is the difference, the ad budget fraction of the price is like a tax. I think given a choice most people would prefer to get their stuff a bit cheaper and not contribute to the ad budget. But we pay it and then the companies hand the money out to various parties to display ads creating the possibility of running a business on ad revenue. And in many cases I can ignore ads, I can not look at billboards, I can switch to a different channel during the commercial break, I can flip over the ad pages in newspapers and magazines but they still get paid. Only on the internet have we decided to only pay for ads when somebody actually looks at them. I just asked for the same thing on the internet, pay for the inclusion on the website, whether someone actually sees it or not. Not sure how that is socialism and wealth redistribute.
I feel like this could work if the payment was handled by your ISP. Content provider tells the ISP how much their content costs that there subscribers pay, and the ISP pays them. I already pay my ISP. The real problem is that it's kinda too late for this kind of change. And also the ISP would need to prevent their users from running up a bill that the ISP would be responsible for and without tracking them that's not possible.
Apple is late but has the resources to catch up in AI. And if not, they can just partner with the AI providers. They'll even get paid for it, similar to Google handing over billions per year to Apple just to be the default search provider.
What is unfortunate for them though is that their AI miss is happening at the same time window in which smartphones seem close to done. They've produced 3 models in a row with zero memorable innovations. You can call Apple a hardware company but it's above all an iPhone company.
First of all, they're greatly exaggerated. The specific case of a large German company that is union connected doing layoffs is cherry picked. It's basically the most shielded situation possible but far from the norm in Europe as a whole.
I'm from the Netherlands myself. Up until COVID we were on a path where employers were pushing everybody into flex contracts. It's a fixed length contract (1 year with a 3 month trial period) that may or may not be extended.
Maximum flexibility for employers, minimum job security for employees.
Did this lead to some spur in growth or innovation? No.
Europe's problem isn't related to worker conditions. It's a silly thing to say considering ludicrous US tech salaries.
Silicon Valley is the result of gigantic amounts of excess (Wall street?) capital creating a tech Valhalla. A black hole ecosystem swallowing money and talent domestic and abroad. Europe doesn't have this capital and the capital we do have we probably put in US tech stocks.
It's a similar problem to US manufacturing vs Shenzen manufacturing. The Chinese government as well as many Western companies invested decades and hundreds of billions into making it the state-of-the-art factory of the world.
Once it's in place you can't replicate it.