>The Defense Department’s 1970s-era IBM Series/1 Computer and long-outdated floppy disks handle functions related to intercontinental ballistic missiles, nuclear bombers and tanker support aircraft, according to the new Government Accountability Office report.
If they're not being held legally liable, then I would not agree that "no one is confused about the liability". Sure, I agree with your analogy with a machine cutting off a finger, but you and I are just two people gabbing on HN. Nothing we say has any effect on OpenAI. And if law enforcement doesn't have an effect on them, then talk about "liability" is just empty words.
Well... if that's true, and I don't know that it is, it's not because of the agents. It's because of the money. People with money get away with crimes all the time and it has nothing to do with agents.
I don’t know what spectrum you’re on, but attacking an argument and attacking a person are two wildly different things. There’s nothing pedantic about that.
I apologize, but I don't find the syntactic rules of this site to be well thought out. "Your comments are stupid" and "You are stupid" carry the same meaning.
> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.
> Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.
> When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."
As near as I can tell, I was in fact right. I just didn't follow the laws of HN communication to express it, on a thread where the person I replied to didn't follow it either.
It would have been more appropriate to pile on with the others above.
One of the main purposes of LLMs is to launder responsibility/culpability for (possibly nefarious) actions in the eyes of the public. The average person has no idea how LLMs actually work and think it’s plausible that an “agent” could go rogue without any human instruction. Terms like agent, thinking, reasoning, etc reinforce the misconception that the LLM has a mind of its own.
Yes, it is, for the reasons I stated in my comment, and you only need look at any OAI/Anthropic press release to see evidence of this in the language they use.
The LLM now reasons better! Set the thinking level! It learns!
All of these phrases are designed to give the impression that the LLM is an autonomous entity, when it is no such thing.
I am not arguing that any of these terms are novel, so this doesn’t address my argument.
Even if I agree that LLM makers are using these terms in the way they were originally defined (which I don’t), my point is that they’re specifically being used to help falsely attribute agency to the algorithm when there is none, and especially to convince members of the general public who aren’t familiar with computer science papers from 70 years ago.
> You are ascribing intent where you have no evidence or proof
As I said already, the evidence is in the language they use, unless you think that OpenAI employees are dumb enough to genuinely believe that an LLM is “thinking.” (By the way, I’d love to see an historical, academic use of that term, which you’ve conveniently neglected to mention.) Anthropomorphizing their product benefits them.
> Those terms continue to be used in the community. They weren't used just once, 70 years ago.
I never said they weren’t used anymore or that they were used once. Once again, you’re not actually engaging with my argument, which is that the language they’re using is chosen specifically to fool people outside the community.
This language has been used in this way for 70 years. These are the words that are used to discuss these things. Are you suggesting this plan has been in the works for 70 years?
And no, your theories do not make for actual evidence.
The fact that they use the word "learning" does not imply they are trying to deceive the public. Sorry. It doesn't follow. AGAIN - these are the words that have been used for 70 years.
I have a question - if I made mechanical teeth and described its actions as "chewing", would I be trying to deceive you? Or would I just be using language in a new way, to explain an analogous situation, as has done with language for all time.
But... I get the feeling we may just have to agree to disagree here.
> This language has been used in this way for 70 years. These are the words that are used to discuss these things. Are you suggesting this plan has been in the works for 70 years?
No, I am stating that the term “machine learning” as used in the Samuel paper and continuously used by researchers and programmers in that context up until the present is distinctly different from the word “learning” as used in public-facing LLM chatbot product copy and press releases. And as far as I’m aware, “reasoning” and “thinking” have no historical analogues, they were just invented to describe something that is distinctly not reasoning or thinking in any prior sense of the words.
> I have a question - if I made mechanical teeth and described its actions as "chewing", would I be trying to deceive you?
No. If I designed an algorithm for mimicking grammatically-correct speech, which given a certain input produces (deterministically) a superficially plausible, fluent response, and described its actions as “thinking,” would I be trying to deceive you?
I do not agree to disagree, since I think your responses were either incorrect or not addressing my argument at all, but since you're not even attempting to engage anymore I'm happy to move on.
Ah, I see you're still misunderstanding what I say. If you'd like to come back and actually engage with what I'm saying, ask for clarifications, or answer the hypothetical I posed, I'd welcome it!
> Correction: OpenAI carried out an attack on RubyGems.
Your 'correction' is incorrect. A corporation did not carry out an attack. Humans did. And, as it happens, those humans were acting as agents to OpenAI, so the original title technically got it right. It is a poor title as anyone who doesn't give it much thought might mistake a human agent for an LLM agent so your symbolic effort to improve upon it is warranted, but sadly you missed the mark.
If we knew it was employees that did it then "OpenAI employees carried out an attack on RubyGems." would work, but since we don't know who did it "agent" is better in the sense that it also encompasses contractors, board members, etc. Of course, if we knew who did it then "<Person's name> carried out an attack on RubyGems" would be the way.
This article is RubyGems pointing fingers at OpenAI, not OpenAI taking responsibility for anything. We don't know what really happened from what I can tell.
Just ask your preferred AI tool if it can shrink the OP's code while keeping the same functionality; I suspect it could. At this point, LLMs are probably no worse than an average human at sizecoding or targeting resource-constrained platforms in general; https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49226923 is a recent example of how powerful they've become.
I am gobsmacked at the tech industry's seemly bottomless appetite for giving these clowns the benefit of the doubt.
reply