Like the “but I’m an asshole, so it’s ok” get out of jail free card. No dude you’re right, you are an asshole, but that doesn’t mean I’m ok with you being a dick.
Brutal honesty is just being an asshole. You can also be an asshole dishonestly. The part that makes you an asshole is the brutal bit.
You should absolutely prioritize mobile (after fixing any egregious bugs). I like pool but would rather actually play (real pool) if I’m at home on my computer. When I’m out and about and have a minute or two to spare is exactly when this would come in handy.
You are presupposing that boom and bust hiring is bad, and worse than a more steady state approach. If one assumes perfection is impossible, it seems you suggest erring on the side of perpetually under-hiring as opposed to ever over-hiring. Why is that better?
This is more true in non-tech fields pre-pandemic. These days remote positions are more prevalent than ones that require relocation in tech and some other fields.
Cry me a river, the same people who demand a long-term commitment from their employer will jump ship in an instant for 10k more after 6 months of employment. Companies are full of them.
When a person moves to another company, the company doesn't have to move to another state and restart its social life from scratch. The person with more power, needs to take more responsibility. Holy batman, sometimes I feel like people don't even have a heart anymore.
Because I thought in America businesses were people. And I have been fortunate enough to work with businesses which seem like they have a heart. Consequently, I've rejected several offers to come work in America for extra pay. I think a system which is purely transactional is inferior, boring and at times immoral due to power imbalance. Society is not a computer program, businesses exist in society and they should behave like that.
I don't understand how you don't understand that. It's a power differential that frustrates people. You can be fired from an employer without it affecting their bottom line, but having it drastically affect your bottom line.
Also, what the hell are you talking about about them "not demanding loyalty"? Big companies demand loyalty all the time. When I worked at an Apple, I had to sign a whole bunch of non-compete forms. Talk about "demanding loyalty"; I technically wasn't even allowed to open a Github issue on an open source project without permission. The only leverage you have as an employee is quitting.
The same way a company can find another employee, the employee can find another job. Also claiming that leaving a company doesn't affect a company's bottom line reflects more about the quality of the work the employee does, rather than the economic reality of the company. If your work doesn't affect the bottom line maybe you shouldn't have the job, that's why you are getting paid to have an impact on the bottom line, not to drink latte, have yoga sessions and raising your children while you are 'working' from home.
Where did I actually say that companies do not ask for loyalty?
I think your first paragraph is sort of self-evidently silly so there's not much to say there. Good employees leave, or die, and most of the time it doesn't kill the company.
> Where did I actually say that companies do not ask for loyalty?
You didn't explicitly, but you did say "worker makes it fairer to demand loyalty but not reciprocate". I'm claiming that the non-competes already demand a lot of loyalty, but the companies do not reciprocate it.
> I think your first paragraph is sort of self-evidently silly so there's not much to say there. Good employees leave, or die, and most of the time it doesn't kill the company.
Yes it's so self-evident that even you argument for it is moving the goalposts. Just to remind you, we are talking about an employee leaving affecting the bottom line of the company, not the company shutting down.
> You didn't explicitly, but you did say "worker makes it fairer to demand loyalty but not reciprocate". I'm claiming that the non-competes already demand a lot of loyalty, but the companies do not reciprocate it.
Loyalty is implicit, not some terms you sign on a contract. Duh, you have to follow those for legal reasons, not because of 'loyalty'. But let's indulge you.
If your contract has a non-compete and you want to see reciprocation of the loyalty, ask to add in your contract the terms that would made you feel it's a fair exchange of loyalty. Otherwise don't sign the contract. But of course you will sign it because you like that fat paycheck high-tech/finance is giving you - won't accept to work for those pesky companies that can't afford non-competes for a lower salary. You make it sound like non-competes are a common thing except for the ridiculously well-paid white-collar jobs.
The reason no one shows loyalty is exactly because it is not reciprocated. Why should the employee have to be loyal when they are just a number to an HR department and the CEO will strike off their job without a second thought? You have things backwards. People used to be loyal, back when you could work at a place, grow your career, and retire with a pension. It wasn't the laborers who broke the loyalty deal.
Yes because we all know self-reported data from employees on how loyal they are and how bad corporations are is a reliable method to come up with studies that are worth the paper they're written on. Get a grip.
It's unclear whether that would be better. In control theory, underdamped systems are generally preferred as it allows you to reach the desired value rapidly even though you often overshoot.
Overdamped systems (IE hire in moderation) can be very slow to respond and often spend the majority of their time in the un-desired regime.
It's quite possible that tech over-hiring when people were forced to work from home yielded a net good for society even though many of those hires were let go a couple years later.
He's advocating that the powers-that-be should consider targeting a slightly underdamped hiring system. Where they over-hire, and as they're overshooting the goal then reduce the rate of hiring, allowing the normal low rate of attrition to bring the PV back down to the SP.
e.g. a one-half critically-damped system. something following a standard first-order ODE like:
where h is the instantaneous number of employees, h* is the desired number of employees, f(h) is your attrition rate as a function of current number of employees, and Kp and Ki are "rate of hiring" coefficients which will be your proportional and integral terms of a PID controller to control your rate of hiring. The point is, the "rate of layoffs" here is zero and doesn't appear as a term.
Is this a proper model for a human organization? Who the fuck knows but it's the model you're advocating for and I'm just re-explaining what the other guy you replied to was suggesting in the first place, but this time using your framing. Yes, he also mentioned they should consider a slightly over damped system but he 100% did advocate for considering an underdamped system.
Ehhhh, your argument was more that "severely underdamped" could be the best, even if it requires an additional forcing factor (firing/layoffs) to bring it back down to the setpoint.
The person you replied to was arguing that perhaps something a bit more mildly underdamped could get rid of the requirement for that extra complication (firing / layoffs).
Yeah, and I disagree. Goal should be to get to the setpoint as quickly as possible even if you overshoot as human nature is to keep the status-quo which generally means talented people wasting their time at obsolete companies.
Control theory in sociology proposes no such thing. Your using an engineering term used to describe machines which is largely the point; human capital being as disposable as a cog in a machine.
Tech companies over-hire to excess and then under-hire to excess. It's like people trying to follow a 1000-calories/day diet who then give up and eat 4000 calories a day. They are never going to hit a healthy weight. Neither is my jackass company, who has laid off more people in 2023 than we hired in 2022, and is still on a hiring freeze.
Honestly, I think this is a wicked problem, in that it's impossible for us to know in advance what the right decision would have been. Was it foreseeable that the economy would be volatile post-pandemic? Yes. Was it guaranteed that it would mean layoffs? No.
In addition, what about the boom itself? What if you're cautious but, during that boom period, you get outcompeted in key areas as a result? This might put you in a worse situation during the bust phase than if you'd over-hired.
Hindsight is 20/20, so I prefer to avoid being judgemental over these types of decisions, while still holding people accountable to doing the right thing, even in tough times.
Or lots of individuals just don't get hired and you'd have had lots of people railing against headlines like "Despite surging demand, companies keep hiring choked off."
To use an even more reasonable framing, absent some small numbers effect or some really high-impact shock, it's incredibly stupid to almost double the size of a company in one year.
That's how you lose your culture and throw the dice again on market fitness. (Well, that and randomly firing people.) Knowledge work just can't scale that fast, and nowadays every work is knowledge work.
What those companies did is bad from every possible point of view.
Because it doesn't create unnecessary suffering for the unfortunate people who find themselves out of a job because some executive over-allocated for a particular role or department. Fundamentally, we want people to still participate in the capitalist system and not reject it because they're constantly treated like cattle.
> Because it doesn't create unnecessary suffering for the unfortunate people who find themselves out of a job because some executive over-allocated for a particular role or department.
Unnecessary suffering is going to happen either way. Keep in mind, at the time of hiring, there is real demand, and while "forever" is more than a bit ridiculous (and no doubt a misrepresentation of the executives' thinking), the truth is nobody knows exactly how long it will last, so you're getting it wrong no matter what you do.
> Fundamentally, we want people to still participate in the capitalist system and not reject it because they're constantly treated like cattle.
That some people don't always have a job is part of the capitalist system. What happens to them when they're not employed, that's not about capitalism.
> That seems like a big claim for which I haven't seen any evidence.
Umm... the entire basis for the article was that there was a belief that market conditions at the time would remain true "forever". That's a very different delusion from thinking there isn't something there.
...and there's plenty of evidence that there was real demand. Real revenue grew significantly during that time. Streaming services saw significant increases in subscriptions. Computer sales were up. In tech in general, sales were up across the board. If you haven't seen any evidence of increases in demand during that time period, I don't think you'll ever see evidence of increases in demand.
Sounds like you're equating 'demand for more engineers' with 'available cash' for any given company. I think you're mistaking demand for ability to purchase.
Increased sales do not intrinsically require more engineers at most companies. It is possible for some companies to have required increasing engineering resources to cope with scale. But the vast majority of hiring was for people to work on future additional features to attract more customers. Zoom, Rec Room, DocuSign, and some other companies in that direct line of moving work and socializing online, yes. Facebook, Google, Salesforce, almost everyone? No.
Companies generally don't require more engineers, ever.
However, if there is demand for your product, engineers are a good way to make it better. If you don't make it better, that demand will go to a vendor who does.
Either way, if you believe these companies never needed the engineers in the first place, it is an entirely separate claim from the claims in this article.
And I'm not presenting some amazing new idea. People have been discussing for years that these companies hire people just to have them, not for business goals.
...and to clarify, you aren't addressing a claim that I made. You're making up an entirely different claim that is unrelated to my statement. You are contending that these companies don't know their operational needs and consequently hire and fire in arbitrary/capricious fashion. That may be, but it's irrelevant to the article or my point.
As you have pointed out, there has always been stories that large companies have unnecessary hires, and engage in strategies of cornering the market for labour. From that perspective, there has NEVER been demand for resources, there is no rationale for hiring more or fewer people, and nothing would constitute as "evidence" that there is demand.
Now the stuff you cite is not really supporting evidence of that. It's evidence that large companies often are inefficient and under-utilize use of their workforce. That is definitely not a new idea, and is well supported both by evidence and simply by intuition about the challenges of efficiently organizing people.
My claim was that given shifting labour demands, it's not necessarily "less harm" to under hire because at some unknown point in the future you may not want to have those hires.
Now, when you claimed that there was no evidence of an increase demand for labour... which really had nothing to do with my point. In part of my response to that claim that there no evidence with a statement that if there ever was evidence of demand, it was at that time.
There was, in fact, evidence. Maybe not sufficient to convince you, but certainly enough evidence to convince hiring managers. What there wasn't evidence of was that this increased demand would sustain itself forever. There never is. The idea that there is less harm in not hiring people because there is reason to believe that demand might decline at some unknown point in the future is just wrong. Sure, if you know that you only need someone for a week or a month, you shouldn't hire them for a long-term position. Not only is it harmful to them, but it is harmful to your organization. However, even if you know that need might dissipate at some unknown point in the future, if you know you need someone until something changes, there is no harm reduction in not hiring.
If a boom-bust cycle creates an economic surplus, then people suffering is an issue of negative externalities and unfair distribution of resources. The solution is to pay people who got laid off, not under-hire.
This is so clearly true I wonder if the author intentionally “misunderstood” the situation so they could rant. Bonus points for commenters years later making the same “mistake”.
No, they don’t really mean caramelization. No, no one else cares.
It's not clear to everyone. Until I read that comment, I had exactly zero idea of that. When a recipe says "carmelized", I foolishly thought it meant "carmelized".
Brutal honesty is just being an asshole. You can also be an asshole dishonestly. The part that makes you an asshole is the brutal bit.