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I myself learned programming with logo, at my school when I was 8 or 10. And it was a delight, I am so grateful it existed.

But quite surprisingly, when later during my Ph.D. part of my time was dedicated to give exercises to students. And we used logo instead of the more usual programming languages. And I think it really helped them to really internalise programming a lot better. Typically, the latest exercices introduced recursion which is immediately visible as fractals.

    HIDETURTLE
    
    PENUP
    SETXY -200 0
    RIGHT 90
    PENDOWN
    
    to dragon :degree :size
        setpensize 1
        if :size>5  [setpensize 2]
        if :size>10 [setpensize 3]
        if :size>20 [setpensize 4]
        if :size>40 [setpensize 5]
        ifelse :degree=0 [
            fd :size
        ][
            left  45 dragon (:degree-1) (size/4)
            right 90 dragon (:degree-1) (size/2)
            left  90 dragon (:degree-1) (size/4)
            right 45
        ]
    end
    
    dragon 6 3000

if you want to give a try :)


small correction - use `:size` in the three lines near the bottom (rather than `size`)

I tried it on https://www.calormen.com/jslogo/ and saw this small typo

cheers!

p.s. same as you, I was introduced to Logo around the age of 8 and I remember writing programs on paper when I was home, stepping through them line by line... it was inevitable I'd gravitate towards programming, ha :-)


I should have scrolled down to your comment first! I spent 10 minutes debugging.

Nice work GP if that was air-coded, though.


I'd also recommend `:degree <= 0` as the check, rather than `= 0`, just in case someone passes `5.01` to the function (which would cause an infinite loop as you'd never hit exactly 0). But yes, if that was just coded into the comment box then it looks pretty good.


I was also introduced to computer programming using LOGO back in 1989. I remember drawing houses and stick figures in it.

Fast forward around 2010, I gave Agent Based Simulation workshop courses to PhD students using NetLogo , which at the time was very popular in the Social Sciences.

It was very interesting to teach programming to non-tech very intelligent people. Some of them came up with really cool simulation ideas. I loved that part of my career.


> Typically, the latest exercices introduced recursion which is immediately visible as fractals.

I well remember the epiphany I felt while learning Logo in elementary school, at the moment I understood what recursion is. I don't think the fact that the language I have mostly written code in in recent years is Emacs Lisp is unrelated to the above moment.


Logo on Apple //e computers was my first foray into programming.

I was entranced.


It must have been a good introduction. I later aced bh's cs61a.


I personally host a forgejo instance on a private VPS ; so far almost no maintenance except protecting it from ai-crawlers[#1]. If you don't want the hassle, codeberg.org is a public instance of forgejo.

[#1]: https://her.esy.fun/posts/0031-how-i-protect-my-forgejo-inst...

I configure my local repositories to push on both Github and my forgejo instance. I am not using the CI much for my private projects (local tests are enough in my case).


I wonder what side you would put Malbolge,

What side for python? Haskell? Idris? Clean? C? K?...

white/dark side is too much of a simplification to me.

Programming language equilibrium is a very complex subject and fascinating one.

After years of experimenting with many of them, it is all a matter of context of usage, personal preferences, objectives, etc.. there is no such thing as "the best programming language ever", neither "best for light side programming" nor "best for dark side programming".

Similarly, there is no such things as: Light side/Dark side in artistic painting. There are tons of paints some are clearly greater than others, but there is no such thing as "the best painting most beautiful for everyone seeing this paint comparatively to any pain".

[^Malbolge]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malbolge

[^Clean]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_(programming_language)

[^K]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_(programming_language)


Malbolge is not an instrument for building, come on programmer.

C is clearly the dark side with to chance to protest.

The only way to consider K as dark side is its speed constraints relative to my favorite PL which is J. K is so fast because its interpreter fits into CPU cache.

Haskell is a border case between sides because the idea of PL is so light that using so much light in programming leans to be really dark. Haskell extracts the cognitive friction from the code environment to the types environment, programming in paper is not a joke for Haskell.


Python is definitely Light Side


If there is any language that has ever been, Python is the very definition of light side, so much so that anything that needs to be done in the cover of night, is purposefully directed elsewhere by rather shady dark siders (C).


Personally this is a hidden trick I use.

Ask AI to build something. By default it will use python. Sometimes js or typescript.

Ask then to do the same thing in Clojure. The result is generally an order of magnitude better. Shorter, easier to read for both humans and llm. Easier to adapt to changes.


Not to mention that changes are easier to review, because there is less of them. Same semantic diff for JavaScript and Clojure looks vastly different, and I'll favor to review Clojure changes any day of the week.


Autochrome [0] make reviewing Clojure diffs from AI really easy.

[0] https://github.com/ladderlife/autochrome


I remember a documentary about learning things to kids, and in order to optimise learning efficiency the optimal ratio for difficult questions should be 1/4. So the children continue to feel good about themselves, while still improving.

So I guess this ratio about easy vs difficult question should be a parameter in such spaced repetition algorithms.


I think there are a few movies that made me realize how much the space is vast, empty and adverse to life.

I think it would be nice for people to take a look at them:

- Aniara (2018)

- High Life (2018)

and maybe in a less artistic view:

- Powers of Ten (1977) yt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKBhvDjuy0


I showed my 6 year old son Powers of Ten a few nights ago and I think I accidentally gave him an existential crisis.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEHCCsFFIuY

Try that to give him a sense of awe. Watch it on a big screen, all the way to the end.


Seeing "Powers of Ten" on TV is an early childhood memory, it really made a lasting impression. Of course I did not remember its name, but now I finally could watch it again! Thank you!


I remember there were data loss, but my account appears to have been recovered. You may try to login again, and with luck, like me you will get back your history.


I host a forgejo instance and I feel it is great to embrace the distributed nature of git.

But be aware if you intend to host it you will need to protect it from recent AI web scrapers. I use anubis but there are other alternatives.


I personally have great success with gptel + mcp + claude (via copilot due to corporate restrictions)

I wrote a short article about how I configured it there: https://her.esy.fun/posts/0029-ai-assistants-in-doom-emacs-3...

One thing I really appreciate with gptel is that it is very easy to switch from Claude to something else like a local llm (via ollama or gpt4all for example). And the interface will be similar.


I think this already exists and there are lot of them. Regarding stealth AI interview, there are many existing products.

Mainly they listen to the interview, and write down answers in an overlay for you to repeat. They ace leet code, etc...

I guess this is already pretty close.


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