I am old enough (40) with a daughter who is almost 3, to be a little horrified by kids' TV. It's not that there isn't a ton of "good" stuff for her, it's that there is only "good" stuff. There isn't anything not geared toward teaching her math, reading or morals. When I was a kid, that was PBS and a handful of other shows and the rest of it was people whacking the crap out of each other to make me bug my parents to buy toys. I don't think either extreme is particularly wise, but it's strange to me there's nothing aimed at her age range that's simply fun.
Left to her own devices (literally), she scans youtube for videos of off-screen adults playing with toys (which depresses the crap out of me) and 1990s-quality offshore Flash video of the same "Johnny finger" song in various copyright violating incarnations. The song is horrific. Do not go look it up unless you plan on having kids and want to inoculate yourself now, but writing this out I wonder if it's not her looking to simply enjoy something rather than constantly be prompted to solve a shitty math puzzle so we can move on with the plot.
All of this sounds like I am an awful father but in reality we limit her daily screen time to no more than 24 hours.
We got all of these in Australia when I was a kid, including Australia's own effort at anarchistic kids telly, Aunty Jack: https://youtu.be/vIqqiK4ncfs
Well, you can't go wrong with Oliver Postgate, who I now notice made nearly half of the programs in my (completely randomly selected) list...
Also I appear to have remembered a fairly small selection of the 'children's television on drugs' genre. See also: Banamaman, Jamie and the Magic Torch, Roobarb and Custard, Captain Pugwash...
While talking about children's television: it's not British, and it's slightly later, but any person of any age who doesn't like Fraggle Rock has no soul.
It was co-produced by a British television company (TVS), and had specifically filmed inserts that replaced the Inventor with a Lighthouse owner (the sequences were arguably better too, certainly less rambling and more focused).
But even if you ignore the inserts (others were filmed worldwide) it's still partially British
I used to think the theme tune went 'The wombles of Wimbledon: common are we' but actually it's 'The Wombles of _Wimbledon Common_ are we'. I had never heard of Wimbledon Common, although it's only 4 miles from where I was born.
My children were the right age about 5 years ago, and everything on your list (and by another comment, Fraggle Rock) held up well for them, and also the watching parents. Sure Mister Ben was a little clunky, but in a fairly timeless way. And Postgate and Henson just had the "storytelling" touch.
If you are implying that those using drugs to stimulate their creativity are somehow inferior to those who are not that would be a tad insulting to many creative individuals who use drugs. Just saying ;)
> we limit her daily screen time to no more than 24 hours.
Here's the thing, though. There's a tradeoff between setting limits and teaching children what's right and wrong; and teaching them how to decide for themselves what's what. This is why kids of a certain age often get cash allowances, for example.
Kids are going to grow up one day. They will watch porn, and they need to know what's what -- what's bizarre entertainment and what's intimate, whatever its kinky-ness level, sex. They will watch violent movies, and movies that depict amoral, despicable situations. And this is fine: we're always flirting with the edge of our morality and our knowledge, this is how we keep growing as humans. "You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth."
This why I have long decided not to have kids. I don't have the kind of generosity to host a little person that at first can't walk on his own, but is already his own person. I don't know how fathers do it. I often think my father should be disapointed that I didn't become a musician like him or some other kind of high-brow artist, but instead a "numbers person" as he puts it. But he isn't disappointed. And just I had been warned, when you're 10, dads know everything; when you're 20, they're total fools; when you're 30, they're even wiser than you realized when you were a kid.
My dad knows something mysterious about Being and Life itself I can only glimpse from watching soccer with him. Foolish as some of his life choices have been.
Yeah at a certain point. But kids at a young age need regulation. If I didn't regulate my 2 year old she'd sit plastered to a screen for half the day. The thing about tv, smartphones etc is that they are incredibly addictive and I'd prefer to avoid my kid being addicted to something before they are old enough to decide for themselves what they'd like to have as a vice. I struggle enough with media/info addiction and I hope to help my daughter be aware of it and avoid it when she's old enough.
>There's a tradeoff between setting limits and teaching children what's right and wrong
Absolutely, but it's mysterious and nuanced and a giant pain in my analytical brain. Allowing her to wander off with a phone or tablet can be a life-saver when things need to be done without any outside "assistance" but our daughter is highly susceptible to a condition I have named "iPad Face" wherein a screen held at arm's length or closer (how I laugh about what my parents' generation would say about eyeballs so close to a TV) can turn the happiest of moods into a dark sulk.
The other problem is everything needs to be taught by example, not by legislative fiat, which is another PITA and a bit of a challenge in These Modern Times. Looking forward to getting her interested in video games so she has another excuse to never go outside!
Wait, did I read this wrong? Limiting the daily screen time to "no more then 24 hours" reads like a tongue in cheek joke, because there are only 24 hours in a day.
Just to close the loop, yeah I did mean to say I'm an awful parent so feel free to ignore anything I wrote. Not quite sure how it slipped through anyone's sarcasm filter but now I'm trying to imagine someone who can imagine a small child staying awake for 24 hours.
Yes, they need to grow up eventually, but not at age 3. A toddler cannot make good decisions on their own. I'm 100% for the point of view you exposed about letting kids make their own responsible choices instead of hand guiding them, but a 3 year old needs to be told what to do.
That sounds like my 4 year old, right down to the finger song she can sing along with in like 5 languages now lol. Those youtube videos of people with toys are nuts, some of them are like a modern form of story telling and really well made.
Some shows I like of hers:
- Miles from Tomorrowland, a family adventuring in space with bits of science and physics thrown in
- Lost in Oz, it's decades later and Dorothy's daughter is into making gadgets and stuff, ends up in Oz. There's only 1 episode now but it's about to be a whole series on Amazon
- Wishenpoof, another Amazon title , little girl can make wishes come true with magic but she's constantly discovering she doesn't need magic to solve problems
- Barbie Spy Squad, it's decent even though all the other Barbie stuff I've seen is pretty fucked-up.
We recently started 'Barbie - Life in the dreamhouse' on netflix for giggles and found it to be an actually decent show. The plot is what happens if you give the barbie dolls and merch to a bunch of nerds and give them free reign.
You get Glados running the automated closet and plotting for world fashion domination, only to be stopped by the evil switch being turned off again, a large part of the first episode is modelled on an Indiana Jones temple exploration, they often handle things like batteries and glitter in the real size form (so the battery is about half the size of the people).. it's surprisingly funny.
I think you may have solved a mystery for me. For weeks our daughter has been talking about someone named "Bobby SuhMEEsa" and we finally gave up and decided he's Keyser Soze, but I think it may be a corruption of "Barbie's Dream House". I kind of liked the mystery better.
My daughter went through that show for a while, and we found the same enjoyment. It's self-referential enough, and plays their inanity clearly enough that even the youngest kid can tell it's not behavior to emulate.
Now that I think of it, the closet basically proposed to use its vast database of good fashion (formed from Barbie's timeline) to generate new excellent fashion - a machine learning problem plus capable AI.
I wonder whether someone is working on that, it really sounds like a good and interesting idea. Is there a system to parameterize clothes? Hm..
I would have joined the closet if I was Barbie, despite the relation with the 'evil' switch.
Why can the little girl only do magic on the weekends - is that some nod to the contemporary assumption that everyone works 5 / 7 days, with the other two nominally for personal (fun / satisfying) time?
My kids are learning english from youtube. My 7 yo son like watching Sonic Adventure easteregg videos and try to replicate them on my Dreamcast. He is getting good.
There is a woman who calls herself "Ms. Hands" (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV6P5rRVmiTL637byUZBTrQ) and I can only assume she's a billionaire given how often I hear her awful voice as she pops toys out of Play Doh "eggs". I find the whole genre depressing as hell because I can't help but think of kids watching the videos who have 0 hope of ever actually playing with those toys.
OTOH, I've been thinking off and on about how to start a channel since it's clearly a great way to pay for kids' toys based on the one show we watched where a kid and his dad assembled a gigantic Spider-Man drivable car.
> I find the whole genre depressing as hell because I can't help but think of kids watching the videos who have 0 hope of ever actually playing with those toys.
To be completely fair, I subscribe to more than a few blacksmithing, metalworking, machining, woodworking, and other heavy-duty crafty channels, and there's little-to-no chance that I'll ever get a lathe or a mill.
> I've been thinking off and on about how to start a channel since it's clearly a great way to pay for kids' toys based on the one show we watched where a kid and his dad assembled a gigantic Spider-Man drivable car.
There's your self-licking ice cream clone. I wonder why it's so pleasurable to watch these kind of unboxing vids. Mirror neurons?
I think watching people play with toys ~= playing with toys,
It's not all unboxing though, whole stories get acted out with toys and different camera angles and lots of editing. There's a lot of elaborate music video reenactments too, like the songs from Frozen.
Get some copies of the classic Looney Tunes, Tom & Jerry 1940-1950 for example. (not the sixties it all goes downhill, the drawing isn't as good, they begin talking, too much characters).
Had the same thought but it's just not that easy. She's at an age where we are trying like hell to convince her hitting isn't the best option, so showing her things like "Hillbilly Hare" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9SrXRNPRCA) aren't the best idea. She's actually in love with old Pink Panther cartoons right now and it's amazing to see what we used to watch: smoking, violence, a lot of shotguns.
Easily ~Youtube-able option with lots of episodes : "Kipper the Dog".
Also 'findable' : The Clangers (charming 1970s show from the UK); Mr Men; Shaun the Sheep; Mr Benn.
All of these are 'gentle' but fun, and not really educational per-se. Even though you'll end up watching all of these again-and-again, Shaun the Sheep remains entertaining for parents too.
My wife and I are working through the old Tom and Jerry cartoons with our toddler, and we are shocked to see how much blackface there is. Like, okay, I get it was a different time- but the quantity is shocking. Episodes where it doesn't even have to happen, they'll just quickly mock black people and then get back to the plot.
I've watched a lot of old cartoons (it comes with the territory when you want to be an animator) and to be honest I'm not sure it was seen as "mocking" back then. It was just How You Drew Black People back then - a caricature based on a caricature.
If you want a complicated viewing experience, track down Clampett's "So White An' De Sebben Dwarves", which is positively bursting with energy and love, for both the craft of animation, and the jazz scene of the day... and a whoooole lotta visuals that just aren't okay any more.
imo, often the things made for adults are better suited for kids than the things designed specifically for kids (by misguided adults).
Kids aren't dumb, they just lack refined thinking models adults develop as they grow up. Eg: I think we all have experienced reading again something we read young and loved and finding a lot more meaning in it.
(I'd still avoid showing some things to them of course.)
As an early movie recommendation, I suggest WALL-E. We started with it at ~2ish, and every time we watch it together, there's more depth revealed (currently at 5.5years old).
At first, it's about a robot and another robot doing stuff. Then they're on a journey. Then the desire for friendship. And hospital. Then (gradually) the idea of different motivations comes in. Perhaps some ecology. Then conflict, etc.
All the while, my daughter is delightfully more interested in robots and space travel than standard 'pink princess' fare.
> I think we all have experienced reading again something we read young and loved and finding a lot more meaning in it.
My favourite example of this comes from comics:
Try looking at Alan Moore's Swamp Thing run (issue #20 or 21 of volume 2 - the 1982 revival). It's a masterpiece that is well worth reading as an adult.
Now try looking at early 80's X-Men. While e.g. Days of Future Past is good, one of the reasons some of the arcs like Days of Future Past stands out so much is that many of these series were so full of excessive amounts of tedious exposition recapping things that just happened and reminding about and explaining things to the reader all the time, and the standouts were the few exceptions that treated the reader as a person with somewhat more mental capacity than a goldfish.
At the time, I didn't see the difference. I enjoyed X-Men and Swamp Thing equally. Now, going back and looking at those old X-Men issues is - with a few exceptions - almost painful and only worth it for the nostalgia.
The Mole is fairly popular in Germany. Clips were included in the children's show "Sendung mit der Maus" which many have jokingly pointed out as being more popular with parents than children. The show also included clips explaining how everyday things work or are made[0].
The subtitle of the show was (is?) "Lach- und Sachgeschichten" (roughly "stories to laugh about and stories to learn from") hinting at the format: some clips were pure entertainment and some were educational. The show is still running though the format has changed a bit over the decades I think.
[0]: See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PNRrOGJqUI for an example of a 1990s explanation of how the Internet works (with live action re-enactments of DNS resolution and data transfer).
When she gets older, if you let her watch Cartoon Network, there's quite a bit of content with zero educational or moral value. In fact, the latest incarnation of Teen Titans seems to be written by people my age (40) _for_ people my age. With tons of references to 80s culture that the kids would never get.
Shaun the Sheep is wonderful sometimes. It is a mix of things kids enjoy as well as references only grown ups will get.
My kids will come and tell me when it shows up in between all the braindead stuff because they know I'll sit together with them. Same goes for Tom&Jerry (eh, the part about me sitting down to watch TV, not the part about hidden references.)
Edit: oh, and I found the Winnie the Pooh audiobook from before Disney bought it and turned it into another educational timewaster. Kids have learned to like it as well.
"With tons of references to 80s culture that the kids would never get."
This is likely in part deliberate. A significant amount of Teen Titans Go seems to be about taking potshots that those who enjoyed the original cartoon. Like 'Revenge of Slade' and its entire plot being a poorly disguised lecture on how fans of the first cartoon shouldn't want this one to be more than randomness for really young kids.
Which of course means anyone actually in the target demographic would have no clue what half the episode means. It's simultaneously confusing to young kids and infuriating to older viewers at the same time.
That was actually one of the first shows she really paid attention to (along with Clarence), but it was back when she was really just interested in colors and sound and not able or interested in repeating what she saw. If we let her watch TTG! on the regular now the house would be a burning pile of rubble.
read this and thought i was talking to myself! those marketing videos with kids opening toys or "acting" with barbie dolls make me want to puke. we're debating getting rid of youtube kids because of all the garbage.
pbs kids is much better "educationally", meaning i guess the danes and the article author would hate it. the point of numbers and letters at an early age is not some parental obsession "achievement" but rather acclimation to things critical to life. you can't read -- whatever the hell you like to read -- if you can't spell, and for us, the sooner our kids can read themselves the better.
I don't really have a problem with our kids having some screen time (without commercials, because it's so easy now), but we had to drop Youtube Kids because of this very reason as well.
Amazing that Google thinks that unboxing videos of products paid by the companies to the "entertainers" is good content for developing minds. I was under the assumption that app was curated, but it must not be.
Amazon's Freetime Unlimited with a Kindle and a soft case has been the best setup so far. Lots of educational stuff from PBS, but they can also mix in the Pokemon or super hero cartoons.
Surprisingly (or not), the kids sort of gravitate towards the more educational PBS shows.
Another huge perk on Amazon is there's tons of decent kids games for free on their Underground app store. Kids games are really expensive ... it still burns I paid $10 to unlock all the utensils in a Strawberry Shortcake cooking game!
I'm not a parent myself, but my mother didn't teach me to read by age three with numbers-and-letters TV shows. She did that by teaching me to read. I'm not especially smart or perspicacious, but I gather from what she's told me that it didn't take her very long.
On average kids are vastly smarter than we give them credit for. From 18 months to 4 years, kids add ~10,000 words to their vocabulary with minimal repetition. 26 letters and 10 numbers is nothing as long as it's meaningful for them.
Educational entertainment is more about parents than education. However, kids also like to learn things so interesting and educational are frequently linked when done well.
PS: If you actually want to teach kids to read then integrating subtitles and story seems like a great option.
I never saw that as a kid but now we have Daniel Tiger's Neighbourhood which apparently is a continuation of sorts. I find it almost condescendingly heavy on the moralizing and turning everything into a 'teachable moment' but then again I'm not exactly the target audience.
Left to her own devices (literally), she scans youtube for videos of off-screen adults playing with toys (which depresses the crap out of me) and 1990s-quality offshore Flash video of the same "Johnny finger" song in various copyright violating incarnations. The song is horrific. Do not go look it up unless you plan on having kids and want to inoculate yourself now, but writing this out I wonder if it's not her looking to simply enjoy something rather than constantly be prompted to solve a shitty math puzzle so we can move on with the plot.
All of this sounds like I am an awful father but in reality we limit her daily screen time to no more than 24 hours.