Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

>Put in that context, the legislation seems pretty well-aimed at its goal of creating more affordable housing in the city.

At the cost of higher temporary housing costs for people that want to visit. Addressing supply by ripping supply from a different market is a bandaid.

This benefits hotels much more than low income people.



> At the cost of higher temporary housing costs for people that want to visit. Addressing supply by ripping supply from a different market is a bandaid.

That's not such a bad thing. The market has demonstrated that hotels and similar will be built until supply mostly meets the demand.

No one will build affordable housing when they can build expensive housing instead.


> No one will build affordable housing when they can build expensive housing instead.

This problem is due to restrictions on supply. Consider the statement, "No one will build affordable cars when they can build expensive cars instead"


Cars can be moved and occupy shared spaces. Dwellings are anchored to the earth and exclude other dwellings from the same location.


Yup, that's one restriction on supply. Other restrictions include:

1. Limits on the height of new buildings

2. Limits on the ability to demolish or extend existing buildings

3. Limits on the minimum size of new apartments

4. Limits on the number of people who can live in an apartment


How does this affect the validity of the original statement?


Affordable cars get built because the market for cars is saturated. Where the supply of some key component of cars a limiting factor on the production capability of car manufacturers, expensive cars would be the only ones produced.


> The market has demonstrated that hotels and similar will be built until supply mostly meets the demand.

Actually I think what we're seeing is precisely that this is not happening. If that were the case, hotel rooms in NYC would not cost 2-3x what they do in the suburbs. The price is high because short term rentals are scarce.


So your answer to an under supplied market is to try to control what is supplied?


One could argue that "affordable" long-term housing is a market who's supply should take precedence on the temporary housing market. Since the two must, by nature, compete with each other for the same real estate.


> No one will build affordable housing when they can build expensive housing instead.

Its the same problem SF has. I completely agree.


This supply was explicitly built for longterm residents - it's written into the zoning laws. If you want to remove the concept of residential zoning, then start building that political platform. Will be interesting to see whether you choose to make residential housing conform to hotel firecodes, etc, in that platform!


I believe the parent poster was expressing a desire to fix the problem by enforcing //more supply// rather than by artificially limiting how existing supply can service different types of demand.


But supply is not unlimited. If you are adding more supply of short term visitor rentals, you are taking from long term resident rentals.


You are viewing this as a zero-sum game. I am viewing it as the city not encouraging economic development and designing a sustainable balance of work, living, and entertainment areas.


> You are viewing this as a zero-sum game

Because it is. There is precious little new space for residential buildings in New York. How does people renting out apartments on AirBnB create a "sustainable balance of work, living, and entertainment areas"?


The airspace above New York which you could encapsulate with more walls is worth quite literally hundreds of billions of dollars.


The only solution that's not a band-aid is to kick out multiple property owners, retirees, and generally all non-productive people out of metropolitan areas to drive prices down, while at the same time removing rent controls. Oh and also to remove most of the bullshit NIMBY zoning laws.

But that's obviously not politically feasible now, is it?


> At the cost of higher temporary housing costs for people that want to visit.

You're implying this is a bad thing. A city's first responsibility is towards its residents, everyone else comes after their needs and wants are catered to.


How long do you have to be somewhere before you are a resident whose needs should be catered to? A year? A month? A week?

Anyone staying in your city is a resident while they are there.


1 minute (though in practical terms that may take a few days), from the moment you registered your address and are able to vote. Everyone else is an outsider.


Visitors don't get a vote. New York is for New Yorkers.


Tell that to everyone who lives on tourism dollars.

Visitors vote with the money they spend in New York.


Are you suggesting that if AirBNB disappeared, people would stop visiting New York?


I don't think NYC needs the help.


Tourism resulted in 45 billion spending. That number even ignores figures from people that travel there to do deals with companies, etc.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_New_York_City


How did New York survive before airbnb???


It created fewer new jobs for the people who already live there, which presumably resulted in lower wages on average. Supply + demand and all.


The same way it survived when it has insane crime rates. But nobody is advocating bringing back crime, are they?


What new thing could you not argue for by comparing it to higher crime rate? Why stop with crime? Your argument might be even more compelling if you used cholera as your baseline.


New york would whither on the vine if it weren't for visitors. Being a world class city means people have to be able to travel there with ease.


Agreed--government playing whack-a-mole again with regulation. Instead, perhaps the regulations governing construction of buildings, zoning, etc are a problem because they inhibit construction that could meet market demand.


This benefits hotels much more than low income people.

By what metric?


A possible metric is limiting competition by keeping existing (likely paid for by hotels and others interested in high lodging/housing costs) barriers to competition in place.

Another possible metric is comparing the benefit to some versus the benefits to others.

The need for rent control at all, as well as the surely depressingly long lines for any waiting list / lottery for rent controlled units, points to a market that has already failed to serve the needs of the community.

Compounding that, the fact that AirBnB or any similar offering is able to so successfully compete with hotels in the area signals that one or more aspects of the hotels is dramatically out of alignment with what the competition that is being eliminated can offer. It /may/ be price, but factored in to that should be the security and piece of mind that a more established name brand and reputation has; possibly the hotels (like Taxis) are doing a poor job upholding a quality brand name, or those that do charge far more than they should if competition were actually a factor for them.


Thanks for the thoughtful response.

Still, it'd be nice of one of the many people who downvoted my comment in the past few minutes can explain why I wasn't "allowed" to ask that question.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: