> I am also almost 100% certain that if scientific programmers leave Python, the language will stall, and the current 3.x pushers are dangerously looking a gift horse in the mouth.
This sounds like such similar sour grapes to the systemd escapades. Huge initial outroar as certain things happened, followed by a gradual diminishing, then [mostly] acceptance.
This is what is happening with Python 3 and a smaller, doom-and-gloom subset of the userbase. Most of us are thankful that Python is striving to improve, and that we continue to pay nothing to use it. The alarmists are far more noisy than those that are happily continuing to build stuff.
Python will remain massively used in the sciences. It's simple, easy to learn, expressive, and has an excellent ecosystem of modules (which now mostly work on Python 3).
>This sounds like such similar sour grapes to the systemd escapades. Huge initial outroar as certain things happened, followed by a gradual diminishing, then [mostly] acceptance.
Only here we don't have mere service scripts, but millions of lines of code people have written in perfectly fine 2.x Python.
And also here we don't have any significant uptake -- Python 2.x is still over 60% of what's used (according to PyPi stats and everything we've seen), and that's after 6+ years that Python 3 had its chances.
PyPI stats are massively inflated by automated deployments, and anyway even them show a clear rising trend for 3. Also, 3.4+ (from 2014) is a very different beast from 3.0, and it's probably not a coincidence that porting significantly accelerated after its release (about 3 years ago).
With numerous libraries phasing out support for 2.x in current or upcoming versions, I think we actually do have significant uptake.
As pointed out by others, those PyPi stats are super off. Better to look at what's going on out in the community and with the most popular packages (like Django).
Except that personally I see the benefit of Systemd every time I boot my linux computer. It just works, fast, and clean. I don't partake in the philosophical arguments. I just want it to work. Py3 by contrast, simply throws cruft curveballs at me. No tangible benefit. This is not a systemd-style issue.
And yes Python will likely continue massively to be used in the sciences, 3 bears like me notwithstanding, so it would be good if the current stewards would actually recognize the fact that this is their core base of users and please could they focus on them instead of the web people who are much more fickle and moving already.
> core base of users and please could they focus on them instead of the web people who are much more fickle and moving already.
Ahhh, I see what's going on now. You may be vastly underestimating the size of variety of the Python userbase. This is one of the absolute most popular languages on the planet. Your science subset is but one of many. And it's not even the biggest if we're talking sheer user counts.
Python must be steered for the good of the majority of the userbase. Not just for vegabook. The fact that you described them as "useless" to me just speaks to someone being impatient and dismissive of a ton of excellent work by the contributors. These changes weren't made just for the hell of it. Particularly the Unicode example that you gave above.
If you want help understanding the rationale behind some of these changes, feel free to ask here. Someone with more familiarity will chime in and help clear up the confusion or angst.
Lol. Before Numpy and friends even existed, Python was used mostly by "the web people" and sysadmins. Scientists are one of a number of Python constituencies, and not even the best-paying nor most visible one.
This sounds like such similar sour grapes to the systemd escapades. Huge initial outroar as certain things happened, followed by a gradual diminishing, then [mostly] acceptance.
This is what is happening with Python 3 and a smaller, doom-and-gloom subset of the userbase. Most of us are thankful that Python is striving to improve, and that we continue to pay nothing to use it. The alarmists are far more noisy than those that are happily continuing to build stuff.
Python will remain massively used in the sciences. It's simple, easy to learn, expressive, and has an excellent ecosystem of modules (which now mostly work on Python 3).