Driving a motorcycle also involves the creation of risk where none previously existed. But people seem to make a rational choice to get on their motorcycle.
The risk of losing money gambling to me seems less relevant than the risk of getting addicted to gambling and making irrational decisions. There's a 100% chance that when I buy a BMW that I'll lose money, but of course no one believes there's a problem with car addicts that the government needs to solve. There is, however, a real problem of gambling addicts, not too different from heroin addicts.
That said, solving the problem with prohibition creates the normal prohibition problems (rational adult gamblers lose their rights, black markets are setup, etc). I tend to like the self banning programs that many states have set up. If you feel you are addicted, you can sign a form banning yourself from casinos for a period of time / life. If you go back, you can be arrested for trespassing.
And of course, the governments do-gooder motivations seem suspect when the government makes lotteries illegal, but then sets up their own lottery monopoly with absurdly low payout rates.
>Driving a motorcycle also involves the creation of risk where none previously existed. But people seem to make a rational choice to get on their motorcycle.
That's because there are concrete benefits from doing so (going from one place to another). And even with that, there are all sorts of regulations for getting a license to drive a motorcycle, where and how to drive one, what to wear while riding one (a helmet is mandatory in many countries), etc. And even so, if motorcycle related accidents where that many that it would matter, driving one would have been outlawed altogether probably.
>There's a 100% chance that when I buy a BMW that I'll lose money
Yeah, but you also get a BMW. With gambling you on average just get nothing.
Gambling is entertainment, the same as going to see a movie or listening to music. You don't get anything in return other than what you experience going through it. I agree that comparing it to buying a physical product may not be the best metaphor, but I can understand where it's coming from.
In the end, it becomes a problem when it's no longer entertaining (just a game), but rather pathological.
The house edge on well-played blackjack is only a few percent, and the highest-payout slot machines are similar. Which means that a low-limit player can keep their losses down to a few dollars pretty easily. So stingy gambling is actually pretty similar to music and movies in dollars-per-hour terms.
I've certainly seen movies bad enough that I would have happily spent my money playing dollar blackjack instead.
Right, and a lot of people forget that when comps are thrown in the edge is whittled down even more, if it exists at all. If I went to a bar I'd be ordering drinks, maybe paying a cover charge, but instead I get "free" drinks while I gamble.
Craps is also a very low (<1%) house edge, and it's a more social and exciting game compared to blackjack (to me atleast)
> Craps is also a very low (<1%) house edge, and it's a more social and exciting game compared to blackjack (to me at least)
This is an even better example. I didn't cite it because I couldn't remember the edge on good play, but it's a solidly social experience which can be had for a very reasonable price.
I think he means that he gets the pleasure of having/using a BMW compared to a gambler who also gets the pleasure of gambling. Both are forms of entertainment and both cause you to lose money.
Gambling certainly gets you status - walk around Vegas and check out the businesspeople playing together. Or for a non-casino version, read about people playing Liar's Poker on Wall Street (in, aptly, Liar's Poker).
And on a smaller scale, it gets you enjoyment. I've had some fun times playing low-minimum blackjack, chatting to other players and the dealer. It got me "nothing at all", but in the same sense that a concert or the markup on drinks at a bar gets you "nothing at all".
Ok, but I'm not a gambling addict, and most people who gamble don't become addicts.
I know people who are literally homeless because they'd rather spend their money following bands around. Some of those bands are too niche to be "socially valuable". Does that mean we need to equate music with heroin, too?
The existence of addicts, or the lack of a social movement or physical product, does not determine whether something is worthwhile. Applying your standard would cut out everything up to "going for a walk in the woods", unless by socially valuable you just mean "things I find aesthetic".
Some people enjoy playing games and think they are good enough to wager money for it. It's not unreasonable for people to go to Vegas or Atlantic City with a disposable cash budget of how much they can gamble away. You just factor it into the cost of the vacation. It's entertainment, losing sucks but it's always fun to win even if you are still down from what you started with.
For some people, luxury cars are a waste of money. Everyone has their own priorities on what is important to spend their money on. Some people like expensive cars and spend their money on it. Some people just want something that won't break down and can get them to work so they can spend their money on whatever hobby they really like.
"no one believes there's a problem with car addicts that the government needs to solve"
If you drive almost any highway in Germany, you'll see a great number of (goverment-funded) posters against speeding. If you commit enough driving offences, you may need to pass so-called "medical-psychological examination" (MPU - "Medizinisch-Psychologische Untersuchung") which is dubbed "idiocy test". This will cost you time, money and dignity. There are also campaigns agains short-distance driving etc.
So I think what you say is not true, quite many people believe that there is a real and present problem with car addicts that the goverment needs to solve.
isn't that a different addiction from what the parent post is about??? the parent post is about 'buying car' addiction, while your 'addiction' is about bad driving stuff
but of course no one believes there's a problem with car addicts that the government needs to solve. There is, however, a real problem of gambling addicts, not too different from heroin addicts.
Not necessarily disagreeing, but it raises the specter of double sided moral hazard: what about people who buy houses near flood plains and either don't insure or under insure them because they expect emergency relief government funds to rebuild and thereby recoup their loss at public expense? What about young people for whom health insurance premiums are uncomfortably high, so they instead show up at the emergency room and don't pay? What about parents who do not purchase life insurance and if one dies, the othe goes on public assistance? I realize this may be a US centric issue.
A motorcycle or car is a fungible asset, and it's the use of the asset that's enjoyable. Gambling is not. It's effectively a service.
Buy a Harley/BMW, and come to regret it? You can sell it, and claw back at least part of your mistake. (and if you bought it Used in the first place, that sidesteps most of the depreciation argument)
Blow your paycheque gambling? You have no recourse.
I know that your mention of "car addicts" was just a throw-away example, but that is actually a strikingly apt metaphor for America's unhealthy dependence on the automobile.
The risk of losing money gambling to me seems less relevant than the risk of getting addicted to gambling and making irrational decisions. There's a 100% chance that when I buy a BMW that I'll lose money, but of course no one believes there's a problem with car addicts that the government needs to solve. There is, however, a real problem of gambling addicts, not too different from heroin addicts.
That said, solving the problem with prohibition creates the normal prohibition problems (rational adult gamblers lose their rights, black markets are setup, etc). I tend to like the self banning programs that many states have set up. If you feel you are addicted, you can sign a form banning yourself from casinos for a period of time / life. If you go back, you can be arrested for trespassing.
And of course, the governments do-gooder motivations seem suspect when the government makes lotteries illegal, but then sets up their own lottery monopoly with absurdly low payout rates.