Why you call him a "sell-out"? He seems to be professional consultant. His main argument seems to be that CFPB does not have legal right to enforce the regulations he is talking about. That may be true or false - I have no idea, for that one needs to be a lawyer specializing in regulation law and parse the documents establishing CFPB and all accompanying regulations and caselaw. Which is way beyond my abilities, and I suspect, most of people here. But how it is "Orwellian"?
He also raises a very correct argument that considering only benefits of successful class action and not the costs of the litigation and the fallout for both consumers and credit industry is just wrong. I mean, if you win $10 from successful lawsuit but would be forced to pay $20 more next time you need a credit check (numbers are just an invented example, of course), then this setup won't be worth it for you.
Again, his point may be wrong - maybe benefits of class actions are much larger than the costs - but this point is certainly in no way is "Orwellian". And if he is right, avoiding such regulation would definitely be in the public interest, in a very direct sense of the term. We have tons of regulations which serve as nothing more than a feeding ground for unsavory opportunistic plaintiff lawyers, with no benefit for purported victims (which get peanuts while lawyers are getting millions, and often the lawyers just buy plaintiffs for minuscule sums in order to mass-file lawsuits) and huge costs for everybody else. Last thing we need is more of these.
He also raises a very correct argument that considering only benefits of successful class action and not the costs of the litigation and the fallout for both consumers and credit industry is just wrong. I mean, if you win $10 from successful lawsuit but would be forced to pay $20 more next time you need a credit check (numbers are just an invented example, of course), then this setup won't be worth it for you.
This argument confuses a payoff to plaintiffs with costs to the credit bureau's customers - but the plaintiffs would not be the customers of the credit bureau but everyone monitored (involutarily!) by the credit bureau.
Just as much, the purpose of the state allowing a lawsuit would not be to give money to the plaintiffs but rather to give the credit bureau a disincentive for doing what they did - manage their subjects' (now victims) data poorly.
Which is to repeat what other have noted - the average American isn't the credit bureau's customer, they are the credit bureau's product (the customers are employers and landlords). If having a secure credit-check system costs more, let the credit bureau's actual customers pay more.
And sure, landlords sometimes pass credit-check costs on to tenants but that's just one more part of the whole abusive system that it would be nice to see reigned-in (though naturally I'm not optimistic).
> This argument confuses a payoff to plaintiffs with costs to the credit bureau's customers
Most people would be both for a class-action lawsuit, or subclass of one another. The point is these things have costs, and when thinking "great, we just took a billion dollars from a richy rich bank!" you should also think of "wow, the richy rich bank just raised fees and made some produces worse and more costly and decided make less investment, which hurt local economy, how that happened I wonder?"
> Just as much, the purpose of the state allowing a lawsuit
This however allows all lawsuits - not only about poor data management but about somebody getting bad credit score and suing the credit report company, and about a font in the report making somebody nervous, and about some document on the company site being not compliant with some God-forsaken regulation from 1907 which some enterprising lawyer dug up and decided to turn into a nice yacht for himself. These things cost big money, and there are people specializing on making big money from such things, with zero use for the public but raising the costs of doing business (which is inevitably shifted on the end consumer). Regulations should take this into account.
> the average American isn't the credit bureau's customer,
How that is true? I've been asked for credit report when getting a credit card, renting apartment, signing up for phone service, signing up for internet service, signing up for the TV service, buying a car, buying any of the kitchen appliances, getting a mortgage, buying life insurance, buying car insurance... You get the idea. What kind of "average American" does none of these things? It's certainly not an average American I have ever met or heard of.
> And sure, landlords sometimes pass credit-check costs on to tenants but that's just one more part of the whole abusive system
I'm not sure - how this is "abusive system"? Do you expect credit bureaus work for free or landlords not charge the costs of doing business because of pure althruism and hate for money? Landlords don't rent out their property because they want to serve the humanity - they do it for money. And if something like credit check costs them money, they'd include it in the price - and unless there's a cheaper offer on the market, that'd be the price of the offer. What's "abusive" in it?
>How that is true? I've been asked for credit report when getting a credit card, renting apartment, signing up for phone service, signing up for internet service, signing up for the TV service, buying a car, buying any of the kitchen appliances, getting a mortgage, buying life insurance, buying car insurance... You get the idea. What kind of "average American" does none of these things? It's certainly not an average American I have ever met or heard of.
How does that make you a customer? This has uses for the companies you buy things from, but not for you directly. I live in a country with no credit reports (credit is given using other metrics) and in do way do I see this as you being the customer or consumer in this case.
That's something that allows me to access easy credit. If I don't have one (e.g. as a new immigrant I didn't have any credit record) I do not get access to credit, instead I have to prepay stuff, use very expensive credit (12% APR instead of 3% APR, that sort of thing), large security deposits etc. Clearly having credit reports make my life easier (and cheaper). How that's not being a customer?
Because I, and many people worldwide, can do all that without credit reports. If it weren't for the credit agencies banks would find another way to determine what credit to give you without additional costs to you.
So your argument is that because the credit reporting companies may raise prices as a result of being sued for their bad actions we should prohibit anyone from suing them and allow them to operate with out any legal liability.
They should be allowed to create databases of ruin, not secure those databases, sell this data to who ever and no one should have any legal recourse because prices might go up if they were found to be liable...
Really? That is your position
I have a problem with these credit reporting agencies even being legal in the first place. I have a problem with the fact I have almost no control over the data they collect, and sell about me, I have a problem the fact they can sell this data about me to whom ever they wish with out my permission, and I have problem with the fact they charge me to access this data in any meaningful or real time manner, sure they are legally required to give me a report 1 time per year, a regulation they also tried to kill, but if I want meaningful access I have to pay them a monthly fee to access my own data.
So it is safe to say I 100% disagree with your position, these credit reporting agencies should face bankruptcy for breaking the public trust. This data breach should mean Equifax as a company is dissolved, unfortunately due to flawed and unethical arguments like the one you are making this company will likely make a profit off this data breach
> So your argument is that because the credit reporting companies may raise prices as a result of being sued for their bad actions we should prohibit anyone from suing them and allow them to operate with out any legal liability.
Nope. My argument is we need to account for the costs of this when we decide if having arbitration ban is a good thing or not. It's not "evil fatcats want no responsibility for their greed, let's stop them!", it's "we have two setups here, with complex cost structure, before we decide which one we are going with, we need to carefully weigh the costs of each, not dismissing any of them because it makes us feel bad and not using unicorn-land economics that says everything that makes one feel bad doesn't really exist". My point is not one is better than the other - I didn't do the work to know that - my point is you have to do the work to know it. Wishing well is not enough, unlike fairy tales, in the economics it's not enough to be pure of heart, you also have to have math and data on your side.
> Really? That is your position
No, not really, you can stop strawmanning now, before you caused local straw shortage and the costs of straw skyrocket.
> but if I want meaningful access I have to pay them a monthly fee to access my own data.
I know right now about half-dozen of absolutely free ways of getting credit reports and scores. I didn't look for them that hard, I was told about them by companies' marketing, banners, mails (both paper and electronic), etc. Discover, American Express, Barclay, CreditKarma, Mint, Citi. Everybody is doing it now. I am sure if I look harder, I can find even more free offers. Surely, the paid ones could have slightly better UI and maybe a couple of added-value services like insurance and notifications and stuff, but bare access to data has been free for a while, if you spend 10 minutes on research.
> This data breach should mean Equifax as a company is dissolved,
So instead of 3-way oligopoly you have 2-way oligopoly. That surely will fix things.
There is no behavior that can guarantee business is not going to be sued. People sue for all kinds of completely frivolous reasons, and it still can cost lots of money to deal with it.
Again, his point may be wrong - maybe benefits of class actions are much larger than the costs - but this point is certainly in no way is "Orwellian". And if he is right, avoiding such regulation would definitely be in the public interest, in a very direct sense of the term. We have tons of regulations which serve as nothing more than a feeding ground for unsavory opportunistic plaintiff lawyers, with no benefit for purported victims (which get peanuts while lawyers are getting millions, and often the lawyers just buy plaintiffs for minuscule sums in order to mass-file lawsuits) and huge costs for everybody else. Last thing we need is more of these.