I’ve owned 3 tr-808s in my life. I currently own one. I can confirm that each one sounds different. I’ve samples from each one. The first 2 I owned were from later in the production run. There are 2 distinct revisions of tr-808s. The early models had a shorter higher pitched snare sound and later models were a lower pitch deeper snare. My current 808 is an early revision with the high pitched snare. My current 808 has the weakest clap of the three I’ve owned.
I mention all of this to make a few points.
1- I don’t doubt that these rejects contribute to the sound in a very specific way. But I don’t think it is impossible to build an 808 that would not fool even the most seasoned experts.
2- the 808 was not exactly a hit product. The “we ran out of parts” line sounds to me like a great way to revise what the real truth of the matter is- it wasn’t selling since sampled drum drum machines like the Lynndrum/Oberheim DX/sequential drumtraks were in far greater demand.
Most people at the time thought the 808 was terrible sounding. It soon was widely available at thrift shops and used gear racks for 10-20% of its original 1000$ price. Ad rock of Beastie Boys fame mentions in an interview that he went to Rogue Music in NYC to get a rickenbacker guitar but instead found a used 808 for 250 bucks around 1984 or 1985. Since the tr909 was released in 84 or so with a focus on sounding more realistic, I don’t think parts availability is the real reason.
3- there are solid clones available that are 100% analog and approach if not hit 100% accuracy in the sound. The Yocto kit when assembled competently is pretty much a 1:1 copy. Behringer has a forthcoming rd-808 that is analog and from the videos sounds the business.
4- the modeled 808 in the Tr08/tr8/Roland cloud 808 is in the ballpark but the cymbals snare and clap are the weakest parts of the modeling. I would say those pass the 5 minute quick listen test but once you spend time with them you realize it’s not right in an annoying way. If anyone wants to read more about the tr-808 a me Robin Whittle has done some amazing work documenting the circuits, explaining how they work and gives instructions on modifying them. Now that these machines are 30 years old, I hope people don’t mod them and focus on preserving them at this point- especially considering that there will soon be cheap Behringer copies to mod.
Finally just want to say it’s great to see this kind of stuff on hn. I could write long winded comments on this stuff all day long.
Triple negative actually. Before some heads explode, I'll attempt to turn it into vulcan approved logic:)
"I think it's possible to build an 808 clone that would fool even the most seasoned experts."
I'm 100% sure about that since a junction generating noise is just a junction generating noise: color is added by filtering/clipping afterwards. One transistor can be much noisier than others but other stages would compensate level differences anyway. To me the only requirement for building a 808 clone that sounds just as the original is to put it in the same original enclosure; psychology plays a role here: if you put the original 808 circuit into a modern enclosure some people will tell it's a clone and sounds different. I wish I had time and money to make a blind test because I'm totally sure most people, including experts, would be fooled both by a clone in the original case and by the original circuit put in a different enclosure.
I agree. I was on another site where we were uploading samples of various owners 808s/808 clones and the results were pretty conclusive that once you match for level and settings you would never know if it was an 808 or a clone. The Yocto is supposed to be as close as possible in design, but does substitute some unavailable parts for modern equivalents. Ive heard a few different Yoctos, and they ranged from dead ringer to way out of adjustment, to unreliable and difficult to build correctly. The fact that it is a kit makes it very difficult to create repeatable results. There are a few other clones out there that I was less impressed with- ACIDLAB MIAMI is in the ballpark but examples Ive heard are not as close as I would hope.
For me, Im most interested in the clap, ch, oh, and cy sounds. Those are the most unique sounding to me among analog drum sounds. The hi hat and cymbal sounds are remarkably complex and everything else Ive heard sounds too much like a metallic pulse followed by white/pink noise. The 808 is not necessarily realistic sounding but it is very cool sounding to my ears. The bass drum, which is mainly what made the 808 so popular in the first place, is now pretty easily duplicated or sampled with other synthesis types, but the 808 kick is unique in that it is more a (near)self oscillating filter controlled by an envelope than a pulse followed by sine wave that other analog kicks use. This definitely contributes to its less static, more bouncy kick drum sound, especially at longer decay settings. Its pretty cool that you can program a pattern and on the first pass, subsequent kicks will add to each other, and then the next time around, they cancel each other. This combined with accent can create some very live feeling patterns, and this is a very underrated feature of the 808.
Especially the voicing board schematics is simpler than the 808 one. Interestingly they used a shift register for noise while cymbals are still made using dissonant oscillators with cmos gates. The schematic though is much easier to read and understand.
That drum machine sounded close enough to the 808 to gain its share of popularity when a couple decades after that sound became mainstream, and of course I was stupid enough to sell mine for cheap just before that moment.
I mention all of this to make a few points. 1- I don’t doubt that these rejects contribute to the sound in a very specific way. But I don’t think it is impossible to build an 808 that would not fool even the most seasoned experts.
2- the 808 was not exactly a hit product. The “we ran out of parts” line sounds to me like a great way to revise what the real truth of the matter is- it wasn’t selling since sampled drum drum machines like the Lynndrum/Oberheim DX/sequential drumtraks were in far greater demand. Most people at the time thought the 808 was terrible sounding. It soon was widely available at thrift shops and used gear racks for 10-20% of its original 1000$ price. Ad rock of Beastie Boys fame mentions in an interview that he went to Rogue Music in NYC to get a rickenbacker guitar but instead found a used 808 for 250 bucks around 1984 or 1985. Since the tr909 was released in 84 or so with a focus on sounding more realistic, I don’t think parts availability is the real reason.
3- there are solid clones available that are 100% analog and approach if not hit 100% accuracy in the sound. The Yocto kit when assembled competently is pretty much a 1:1 copy. Behringer has a forthcoming rd-808 that is analog and from the videos sounds the business.
4- the modeled 808 in the Tr08/tr8/Roland cloud 808 is in the ballpark but the cymbals snare and clap are the weakest parts of the modeling. I would say those pass the 5 minute quick listen test but once you spend time with them you realize it’s not right in an annoying way. If anyone wants to read more about the tr-808 a me Robin Whittle has done some amazing work documenting the circuits, explaining how they work and gives instructions on modifying them. Now that these machines are 30 years old, I hope people don’t mod them and focus on preserving them at this point- especially considering that there will soon be cheap Behringer copies to mod.
Finally just want to say it’s great to see this kind of stuff on hn. I could write long winded comments on this stuff all day long.
Edit- adding link to RWs 808 mods/info http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Roland/TR-808/mo...