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I'd like to remind the US of the creation of Keep America Beautiful. I was surprised to discover this was an early piece of corporate greenwashing in the 1950s[0]. Funded by Budweiser, Philip Morris, Coke and others to prevent Vermont bringing a mandatory deposit scheme in for single use packaging. How topical!

Now companies can pollute to their heart's content and make it our failure and their externality. Just by advertising at us to recycle and dispose of our (not that we created or requested it) rubbish carefully.

[0] https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/more-recyc...



While packaging leads to some pollution problems you only have to see the results of large gatherings in outdoor events and even in some stadiums that America has a problem with people who don't care, don't think its their job, or worse think its cool to trash a place. In many places you just have to look along the side of the road to see the problem. Where I am it is a common use of prisoners to clean up the shoulders.

Children are the best chance of changing it all up. Get them early and emphasize the positives while not dwelling on the negatives. Plus it is always good and sit down and see if we are living up to our own standards. Its one thing to complain on a message board it is another to set an example and hold to it

When it comes to packaging its going to take a combination of consumer pressure and possible regulation. What we must not do is react stupidly like the recent straw bans because when people mock something they don't respect the reasons behind it and it cascades.


I think we have to go at all sides.

Young kids are definitely part of the solution. Though by the time they reach teen it often seems any and all interest in tidiness has vanished. They'll usually regain it in some years. :)

Humans of all ages will be lazy and inconsiderate at times. Accept that as a known and cater accordingly. Fewer and benign materials, decomposing harmless materials and systems that encourage consideration like use of deposits on containers. Require more of retailers, manufacturers and event organisers. Once a few bins overflow and it no longer looks that tidy a lot fewer people will care to dispose carefully, etc...


>*"Now companies can pollute to their heart's content and make it our failure and their externality."

Not that I disagree with your overall sentiment, but are you suggesting that it's not my responsibility to throw garbage into a trash can?


Not at all, but human nature being what it is, I would like systemic solutions that personal responsibility can be a constituent part of. Not to discover the body putting out advertisements to keep the place tidy and care for the environment are also a lobby group formed to prevent legislation impacting manufacturers in that area. Makes me wonder about the history of the UK equivalent!

If the trash can't be easily recycled or is excessive that's a manufacturer problem even if it all ends up in the correct bin. If reuse and deposit schemes would help that's a manufacturer or legislative problem. So it goes on. I'd even argue that takeaways and franchises have partial responsibility for trash around their outlets. Produce less, with less impactful materials. After all the customer wanted a burger or coffee not a selection of impossible to recycle junk.

One of those groups is going to some lengths to avoid their responsibilities. The other, on the whole, is trying or is required via kerbside collections from their homes. On windy days kerbside collections in these parts don't pick up all the blown away plastic. That should be their responsibility too. Presumably my local authority didn't specify that adequately in the outsourcing contract - though it shouldn't be necessary.

As is, it looks like we've landed most of the responsibility on those least able to do anything about it.


I accidentally replied to a different commenter thinking it was your reply:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17680544


> just seemed you were implying before that corporations hold some kind of responsibility to ensure trash doesn't end up on the ground

I'd argue they do, or at least should. As do we, the end customer.

No law, advertising campaign or regulation has yet achieved 100% compliance. It's the responsibility of producers and retailers to realise, or be forced to realise, that in selling to humans some portion of their trash will be disposed of lazily or inconsiderately and mistakes will be made. They made it, they cannot be absolved of all responsibility the moment it's handed to the customer. Particularly when the quantity created is ever increasing and producers seem ever more inclined to single use plastic - because for them it is consequence-free.

There's an army of psychologists employed trying to create need or desire where there was none, or encouraging further sales. How might they nudge a real improvement in trash disposal? Maybe a 25p or $1 deposit on a bottle or container would be a good start. Maybe we'd want to require benign and decomposing materials knowing full well we're over-evolved apes that would once harmlessly drop the banana peel or chicken bone wherever we finished with it.

Responding to a straw ban with a sippy-cup lid that uses more plastic (hello Starbucks) is taking the piss and ignoring all the now well known public concerns. If there were any natural justice that should result in a business-threatening boycott and draconian legislation in response. Whether the straw ban was well intentioned but misguided is a separate conversation.


> are you suggesting that it's not my responsibility to throw garbage into a trash can?

They're suggesting the idea that it's solely the individual's responsibility was invented and promoted (for obvious reasons) by companies that manufacture disposable products, starting in the 1960s.[1]

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20050401192355/http://www.altern... (archive to fix formatting)


Consumers have less power to reduce resource usage than companies. When companies put the burden on consumers it's a bit of a farce. There's only so much power the average consumer has to choose brands that are more ecologically friendly.


As long as we self-identify as "consumers," and believe our only lever for change is to "choose brands," we will have no power whatsoever.


It's not just about throwing garbage into trash can. The main question is about how much of garbage is being recycled? And who will pay for the recycling if you mandate 5 different types of garbage and mandate maximum possible recycling? Many of the European countries have major focus on percentage of garbage being recycled. Some countries even reached 70% or so and have plans to increase it even further.


Again, I don't disagree with anything you are saying here, it just seemed you were implying before that corporations hold some kind of responsibility to ensure trash doesn't end up on the ground.

When in my (limited) experience, 99% of trash on the ground is from the public, while 99% of pollution of the water ways (edit: and landfills) is from corporations/industry/government. (1% being the exceptions, and these being made up numbers anyways...)


Edit: above comment was a sent to wrong post...




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