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Has there been any earthquakes which are actually significant? No matter how bad fracking is, coal is much worse (the goal needs to be to get China and India onto Natural Gas and then renewables)


The Methane leaking is a huge unknown. It isn't regulated, but is known to be quite high for any given site and along pipelines.

As it is a very potent greenhouse gas, the effects could be significant.

To be clear, both are bad and I hope renewables eat their lunch, breakfast, and dinner in short order.


The Energy Policy Act of 2005 excluded hydraulic fracturing from both the Clean Air and Clean Water acts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exemptions_for_hydraulic_fract...

If it's as safe as we're led to believe, why does it need to be exempted from the laws that protect the environment we all share?


Oklahoma put restrictions in place after earthquakes threatened critical infrastructure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009–19_Oklahoma_earthquake_sw...

I believe the Netherlands is phasing out its industry because of concerns. I also recall reading about problems in China as they begin trying to frack.


In the north of the Netherlands (province of Groningen, location of Europe's largest gas field) earthquakes caused by gas extraction have caused widespread damage to homes and infrastructure. The government - pressured by inhabitants - decided to significantly cut back production of the field, and will close the field entirely in 2030.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groningen_gas_field


The Netherlands is phasing out natural gas due to actual earthquakes in the lower magnitudes. Because it's a location where natural earthquakes normally don't take place, there is a risk of collapsing houses with all possible consequences.


> the goal needs to be to get China and India onto Natural Gas

There is plenty of coal in India but not so much natural gas. Economically speaking in the short term it does not make sense for India to go with imported natural gas.


> the goal needs to be to get China and India onto Natural Gas and then renewables

Is there much natural gas in China and India? China can possibly get it from Russia and a few other neighboring countries? What about India?


That wouldn't be my major objection. Its basically rushing through exactly the same steps the west has been through (why?) and locking in a model of the grid based on centralised generators, when they have the opportunity to build out a grid based entirely on renewables.

I'm thinking of more rural areas here, that havent already been hooked up to the grid. If you introduce possibly intermittent renewables villages are probably going to be more accepting if they don't already have access to 24/7 power. They can make it work for them, but that village can join up with other villages and become more reliable as the network expands.

Its analogous to mobile phones and mobile payments in the developing world. You don't have to build the landline and banking infrastructure, you can miss it out completely.


Wat? Both China and India are years ahead of US in terms of renewables. Not only they are already ahead, they also invest more.


No they aren't. Not even close.

China gets 65% of its electricity from coal, the US gets 25% from coal. China emits more co2 than the US and India combined, and their co2 emissions are increasing 10% per year.

The US is pretty lackluster for renewables. But despite all appearances to the contrary, it's not doing nearly as bad as Trump claims to acclaim to. China is the polar opposite: it talks the talk but it's the largest polluter in the world by a huge margin.


China is still way behind the States in per capita. Quoting absolute numbers is just meaningless.


The biosphere only cares about absolute numbers.


Yes, it cares about the combined emissions of each human, not what silly borders we've drawn on a map.

Western countries don't have a moral right to pressure everyone else until we get our own house in order. China isn't the problem. You are, and so am I.


Aren’t these numbers misleading, by implicitly treating gas as clean energy?

The right metric should be %renewables of installed capacity

USA < 15%

India almost 17%

China almost 25%




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