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How would, "What happens after prisoners become accountants / lawyers / bankers..." sound? To me, it says that trust in our profession is interchangeable with that of trained felons.

I'd rather not have technically proficient felons near passwords, credit card #s, and other personal information.

Edit:

I hate to sound like a Calvinist here, but you have to ask yourself how much a change in behavior is due to "rehabilitation", and how much of it is purely situational.

From what I've seen, they're model employees, until the setback--be it divorce, drugs, financial hardship, stress, etc. Then there is the backslide.

And you don't have to take my word for it. Recidivism rates are very very high.



Yes, recidivism rates are very high indeed. And I am proof of it, having done time in two countries (US and Mexico) and two states (Arizona and California) for a total of 19 years of my life. But just as I am a statistical number of those that return to prison, I am a statistical number for those that get out and stay out. I have been working as a software developer for the last 20 years and make a comfortable living from the career I chose. But my story would have been very different if I had never been given a chance to work and prove my worth. Thankfully, someone was willing to take a chance by hiring me. I’ve been free for the last 22 years, married for the last 20, father of a beautiful daughter, and grandfather to an adorable girl.


This implies that a felon has a criminal mindset and is just looking to commit more crime.

I personally feel the world is safer with felons having access to code and PII (or working in financial roles) and a good salary than it is when they are released and are back in the cycle of desperation -> crime -> incarceration -> release.


The specific felony matters a lot to me. Someone busted with a gram of marijuana or a bong in Arizona can pick up a felony conviction for it. Someone with a previous embezzlement charge is a different story (even if the embezzlement conviction was only a misdemeanor).


I'd also disregard a pot bust.

This Aguirre guy in the article was at least an accessory to a shooting--even though they charged him with much more than that... not the kind of person I want near confidential information.


I did different/lesser dumb stuff when I was 17. If my friends were into "street life" instead of cars, computer games, and D&D, I can see a scenario where I'd be along for the ride in one of their/our exploits.

Peer pressure and "going along without thinking through the consequences" in a group of your friends at that age is a real thing and I don't think is strongly predictive of adult trustworthiness. (I generally tend towards the "law and order" side of things.)


> How would, "What happens after prisoners become accountants / lawyers / bankers..." sound?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/19/business/are-felons-fit-t...


That is a nice anecdote. Is it good policy?


> I'd rather not have technically proficient felons near passwords, credit card #s, and other personal information

Isn't a felon's debt to society meant to be repaid after their sentence ends?

I'd much rather that people leave prison ready to be useful and/or productive members of society.


Trust has to be earned--even for non-felons. After the debt is paid, I think that puts the balance at zero.

How many tech firms hire at zero--other than in situations like this limited-time virtue signaling / PR fodder opportunity?


The prisoners hired ostensibly showed commitment to good behavior, rehabilitation, and self-education, over a period of many years, in an environment extremely non-conducive to such aspirations. That amounts to more than “zero”.


Why do you assume they're not earning trust? The article says: All three apprentices were placed on the test-automation team, which writes tests to ensure the quality of other engineers’ code, precisely because it’s insulated from customer data. The people doing the hiring are aware of the issue, as anyone in their position would be. It is obvious.

Would you mind re-reading the site guidelines and noting this one?

"Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html


[flagged]


This kind of snark is unnecessary. You can get your point across without the abrasive language.


> Trust has to be earned--even for non-felons

Yet we hire kids straight out of college or a bootcamp and give them access to production data.


Straight out of college, not straight out of prison for being an accessory to somebody getting loaded with buckshot.


That sounds nice and dramatic, but I don't see how a terrible choice someone made 10 years ago says anything about how trustworthy they are with regard to financial or personal information. It seems you're leaving out the assumption: once a criminal, always a criminal.


Well, this graph does shed some light on that...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recidivism#/media/File:Recidiv...

For white collar crime, which seems most relevant to the topic at hand, the recidivism rate is slightly less at about 48%.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/abstract.aspx?ID=1451...


One argument some people will want to make is:

This possibly speaks more about how our current incarceration methods are failing society, than it does about any particular person who’s been incarcerated.


The article said it was birdshot, not buckshot. Still a crime but birdshot is far less lethal than buckshot.


The article says the felon coders who were hired are in the test engineering department, due to restrictions clients have when it comes to data access by people with criminal records.

And those with criminal records are allowed to practice law. Quite a few inspirational stories of this actually: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shon_Hopwood


Most crime is situational. You would be a criminal too in the right situation.

Your thought process is a huge contributor of recidivism. When someone cannot escape their situation, they continue doing what they need to to survive.


>> What happens after prisoners become accountants / lawy...

Or Senators, congresscritters or Presidents? Seen the TV news lately?




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