"Bricked" is relative, depending on your skill level.
For some consumers, if recovery mode doesn't work that might be the end of line.
However, there are more advanced users that can access the storage via another system and fix it there, hook up via serial port or JTAG and flash new firmware, or even desolder and replace chips.
On the far other end of the spectrum, there's going to be people that consider "doesn't show the normal UI after I press the power button" as bricked.
If you go that route, "bricked" is now indistinguishable from "broke," and we already have a word for that. Broke. We would have then gone from a situation where we had two different states and names for each of those states to a situation where we have two words for the very same, very fuzzy state and no way to talk about the other state.
It makes a mockery of the idea of advice. Imagine your parents calling you and telling you that their machine is bricked. Well, I guess they must buy a new one and the old must go to electronic recycling. No need for a diagnostic of any kind, it's bricked.
Linguistic descriptivism will be the death of communication and standards. Only pushing back at the creep will allow people to discuss anything technical. Imagine the trend should it overtake medicine. If a certain kind of stroke is suspected, the patient should take aspirin right away. No, aspirin-aspirin, not ibuprofen. Then you have someone who says, "Well, ibuprofen is an aspirin sure!"
As much as I would like precise and accurate language, the reality is that people have varying degrees of knowledge of any field. That is why computer technicians and doctors alike have to ask deeper questions when making a diagnosis.
Even within a field, people may have slightly different interpretations of what a word means. Take consumer electronics. Say someone plugged in the wrong power supply and blew an inductor. If you don't know what a power supply filter is, it's garbage. If you do know what's going on, it's a simple repair. Now look at the case of a bad firmware update, where the device cannot reach recovery mode. Someone with a knowledge of embedded software development may know how to fix that, particularly if they have connections with the vendor. Most people will consider it damaged beyond repair. The thing is, you can have one person who is knowledgeable about software and another about electronics having entirely different interpretations of what bricked means. The only real commonality in the definition is, "I cannot repair it." For someone with negligible knowledge about how consumer electronics, that is going to have a very broad application.
Personally, I think that bricked means that it can only be repaired with specialized tools (including soldering irons or JTAG interfaces). But hey, I'm sure a lot of people would beg to differ.
Bricked, to me, means it is physically just fine, but it doesn’t work due to some kind of software issue.
“I bricked my phone and had to spend a whole day reading obscure guides to three different levels of embedded software before I could get it working again” feels like a perfectly valid sentence. You can fix a bricked thing, just like you can fix a broken thing, but both require some investment of time and possibly the use of tools that you won’t usually find outside the hands of specialists.
imo "Bricked" means you turned your piece of electronics into a brick, it cannot be recovered. Otherwise as mentioned before, it's just "broken", which can be recovered from in most cases.
A bricked device usually can be recovered using only software tools and sometimes a special cable. Sometimes those tools or cables are only possessed by the manufacturer, which frustrates consumers and makes it seem like the devices are unrecoverable, but they’re not.
A broken device, on the other hand, can’t be recovered using software tools or a special cable because it contains broken parts that must be repaired or replaced.
A physically broken device might still be functional though, so personally your terms are backwards.
A bricked device has a slight chance of recovery, if you have the tools/skills/training. It is a brick until that repair with high applitude is completed.
Something that is broke doesn't mean it is functional or not, just not at a perfectly working condition to worse. it might be repaired by doing a reset of a device, or something more advanced.
This is from my experience dealing with non-technical people who are mechanically inclined, but not technically inclined. they will call with a "broke" device that just needs a reset since they have too many users in a system all attempting to run the same device on different things. (Sorry keeping vague to keep me out of hot water). They will also call in with something "bricked" because the device won't function due to a damaged USB port, and they don't have the skill set/components to solder a port on something electronic. And then further down the scale it is a paperweight when it won't boot and is a piece of hardware they hate.
I disagreed with GP's use of the term bricked to mean unrecoverable. You seem to agree with me because you wrote that a bricked device can be recovered with the proper tools/skills/training. I hadn't considered partially-working devices, but I think you're right that they shouldn't be properly called bricked.
The threads here show that even highly technical people disagree on what conditions should be considered bricked versus broken. To a non-technical person whose device isn't working, however, there is no practical difference.
I actually changed my mind a little after posting that comment. I think it was mentioned elsewhere also, but even something that I would consider "bricked" could still probably be recovered by someone with access to the right tools (ability to reflash via JTAG, replacing chips etc.)
I would refine my definition to be that a "bricked" device is something that has occurred via a failed software update making the device inoperable to all but the tiniest subset of users.
So...I generally agree with the idea that it is more useful to have two terms that mean something distinct than two terms that both mean a fuzzy version of the same thing. In that, despite linguistic history, or the common parlance of whatever time or place, I think "literally" is useful as a concept that should disallow it from use as a term for exaggeration. Because sometimes context does not expose "I am literally going to kill you"'s meaning, and it is useful to know if that's literal or not.
However, I think the situation you might find here is that, if you define "bricked" as a situation which is literally unrepairable, almost nothing is ever bricked. Which similarly makes it a not very useful term. Bricking would be a term exclusive to devices which have been...exposed to an intense EMP, or run through an oven. Situations which, while they may occasionally happen, happen so rarely that no one would ever use the word.
Bricked specifically means it’s unrepairable (ie: it’s now a paperweight, a brick).
It’s fair to say “bricked” is a sub-category of “broke” but if something is software repairable then it isn’t bricked.
Also aspirin and ibuprofen are very different chemicals. I wouldn’t advise conflating the two. The resulting effect could be worse than the brick/broke problem we are discussing ;)
If a device requires extraordinary measures most people cannot or will not take in order to "unbrick" it, then it's possible for the usage to be correct even if such a procedure exists.
For example - years ago, NVIDIA got in some hot water over some of their mobile GPUs getting so toasty some of the solder points broke, leading to bricked systems. If you were the adventurous sort, you could heat the laptop enough to reflow the solder and end up with an unbricked system, but that's not an approach most people are going to take.
Anything can be recovered with enough effort, technical knowhow and the right equipment. The distinction is what can be realistically repaired. Generally the term “unbricking” only exists because people overuse the term “bricked” (eg a phone stuck in a boot cycle isn’t a “brick”, it’s just “stuck in a boot cycle”. However if you do manage to fix a device by specialist hardware repairs then yes, I think it’s fair to say you’ve “unbricked” it.
You're all just messing with that n-gate.com guy, right?
(FWIW: If the terms are to be interpreted relative to the device owner's competence level, we also need to prosecute people saying "You're dead to me" for murder)
I agree. We already live in a world where many people use the phrases "hard drive", "CPU" and "computer" interchangeably when talking about a desktop computer.
Is the power system in your house bricked if you don't know how to reset the fuse? Is your car bricked if your battery dies and you need help to replace it?
Maybe, but this sounds really strange to my ears. I think for me the difference between bricked and non bricked is the expense of the repair, and maybe if it's more than the value of the device. If the wiring in your house is all melted after lightning strike then it's bricked. If you total your car it's bricked.
It’s not just money but time, research, and ease. If you are in the desert with no cell connection and your car encounters a failure condition, even though you can pay to have it fixed, for all intents and purposes, to you it is bricked.
For a lot of people, any non-normal state == bricked. Especially now, when the genius bar isn't open.
And yes, there's a difference between a soft brick and a hard brick, and it depends on your ability to repair.
Getting my phone stuck in a bootloop is usually a soft brick, but my Pixel went into one a few years ago for no apparent reason (likely mobo failure) and that was beyond my capacity to repair or diagnose, so it's bricked.
It is the sort of nonsense we have to put up with when people start abusing a well-established term to get attention rather than to convey information -- though, in this case, it seems some machines really have been bricked.
To be sure, a soft brick is a pile of clay or mud, not a brick at all. It has neither the form or function of a brick, and therefore is the perfect analogy to this vociferous misnomer.
In my experience people call those sorts of things broken or not working, rather than (soft or hard) bricked. So people would say things like "the power went out in my house and soft bricked my TV until the power company turned it back on"? It's interesting how language evolves.
That doesn't seem to align with where you said that any non-normal state is bricked, and that the difference between soft and hard bricked is your ability to repair it.
I consider bricked to be anything you need specialized tools for. So JTAG-fiddly-stuff-required would be bricked, but if I can get the thing working by moving some jumpers or entering some advanced recovery mode while reading about it on the internet, that's not bricked. It's also bricked if you have to replace hardware, like if you have to replace a chip or a board.
I agree. From the modding days bricked always ment hardware hack was required.. I have the same gripe about how the word is used now. Glad to see it’s not just me
Dictionary definitions are not formal definitions, they are attempts to capture usage. And they are almost invariably approximations except when explicitly specifying otherwise, and outside of the the more lavish of the unabridged dictionaries are also almost in invariably simplified, both in the number of definitions of any term presented and often the individual definitions, for brevity at the expense of accuracy.
Yes, but to use a term in a technically relevant way, it needs to be tied to reality; if not, it's just marketing jargon or pseudo-tech speak. The best technical definition for this case is not by how it is most commonly understood, but how it most commonly applies. Dragonwriter makes a compelling case in that it is most commonly true that a user won't have access to the specialized hardware required to "unbrick" the device.
"Literally" is often used when the subject is metaphorical, but that's not the same thing as it meaning "metaphorically". If you took the "literally" away, it would still be understood to be metaphorical - the "literally" is intended to strengthen. It's the normal sense of literally, used hyperbolically.
In the same way, when someone says "you left me waiting for days" we don't say that "days" sometimes means tens of minutes.
>"Bricked" is relative, depending on your skill level.
>For some consumers, if recovery mode doesn't work that might be the end of line.
If you want to go by that rule, for a large number of people simply getting a virus would mean their computer is bricked. I think it's safe to assume "bricked" means it's a hardware level issue.
Usually it mean that device is not function anymore. Some time ago were very easy to brick phones while flashimg them. Its not hardware, it just complete mess in software.
>Usually it mean that device is not function anymore. Some time ago were very easy to brick phones while flashimg them. Its not hardware, it just complete mess in software.
Failing to make a back up of the software on a device which you're attempting to hack and subsequently destroying hardly seems relevant to an auto update locking you out. That's more like changing your password and forgetting it, or back in the day formatting your hard drive without a copy of XP to re-install. I don't know which phone you're referring to, but every phone I've rooted has been salvageable.
I guess I'd go with "bricked means the device is no longer usable, due to some problem the cause of which lies with the manufacturer", so most often devices are bricked because of hardware issues because manufacturer software issues are generally recoverable from.
Sure, but this is in the context of Macbook Pro's which can be fixed by someone with a bit of technical prowess, or literally anyone if you bring to to an Apple store. They're not locked down by hardware and unable to be restored like the Sonos smart speakers.
If I want to go to the nearest Apple store from my home, that's about 3 hours of travel time. Traveling 6 hours to fix a buggy update in the middle of social quarantine because of a pandemic it not something to look down upon.
Especially since countries other than mine have called out a complete lockdown. You can't just walk into an Apple store right now or call a techie friend over.
Chrome and Firefox, as well as Microsoft, have announced that they will only distribute stability fixes to prevent people working from home from having trouble.
In any normal year, I'd say "shit happens" (or "that's the risk of buying Apple", given that they don't even offer to do pickup of your >€2000 machine like most businesses selling laptops in that price range do). Right now, any disruption in computer performance is debilitating.
Apple needs to confirm these cases ASAP and/or pull the update for the devices affected. Apple isn't the only one releasing bricking updates by the way, Samsung has pulled an update for their A70 phone because of bricking issues two days ago.
The problem with this 'it is relative' line of logic is that everything can be relative. We need terms that describe stuff regardless of how people perceive it.
Otherwise, as you said, 'bricked' can mean almost anything. So what's the point of using a word without any particular meaning?
I've always had the impression that the difference between bricked and non-bricked is if it requires you to "fix" the hardware, it's considered bricked while if you can somehow fix it with just software, it's not bricked (yet?)
So flashing new firmware to fix the problem, not bricked.
Requiring soldering stuff and replacing hardware, it's bricked.
If the Apple store is open and not closed during a world-wide pandemic.
In this case, you can probably recover through the DFU mode and reinstalling Bridge OS. But this requires another Mac, which some people may not have, and at least some tech know-how.
The above thread about using DFU to recover a bricked MacBook confirms this: To HN experts, the device was bricked, until a new repair step was made known that could repair the issue (“unbrick it”).
>However, there are more advanced users that can access the storage via another system and fix it there, hook up via serial port or JTAG and flash new firmware, or even desolder and replace chips.
Not all people own more than one system.
If it was my only computer, and depend on it to do work and earn my living, and it broke, I would be terribly upset. Especially these days with the quarantine.
For some consumers, if recovery mode doesn't work that might be the end of line.
However, there are more advanced users that can access the storage via another system and fix it there, hook up via serial port or JTAG and flash new firmware, or even desolder and replace chips.
On the far other end of the spectrum, there's going to be people that consider "doesn't show the normal UI after I press the power button" as bricked.