I and my sister both had our first kids within 14 days of each other, she's in the UK, I'm in the US.
She:
- Elected for a home birth, so the NHS put an ambulance on stand-by outside her house once the midwife said things were coming to a head, in case things went south.
- Had regular home-visits by the nurse after the birth until she was happy without them, which focus was both the child and my sister's well-being. no question too foolish to ask, practical advice, that sort of thing, you know ... support.
- Got 6 months paid off work (state + company perks)
- Got free daycare when the kid was young.
- Gets child-support payments from the government every 2 (?) weeks. Not much, but every little counts.
- Gets free-at-the-point-of-need healthcare, of course.
- Gets excellent free schooling, all the schools are rated above average where she lives, in a Northern city not known for its largesse.
I:
- was kicked out of hospital in 3 days because that's what the insurance would pay for
- had the nurses give me stuff to handle the first few days (bottles, nappies, etc.) under the table because they weren't actually allowed to.
- Got no support after we left the building
- Got 2 weeks paid leave.
- Almost had a nervous breakdown because of what we didn't know, had parents fly out to help and finally got some sleep after 2 weeks (he's an "active child"...)
- Had to bump up the insurance costs significantly from X+Spouse to X+family, because there's no X+Spouse+1, so we're indirectly paying for those with X+spouse+4
- Paid a fortune for daycare in the valley when it became time.
- Realised that our designated local school was bloody awful (3/10) despite being in a "good school district". Didn't win the lottery. So we pay for private school, currently about $15k/year
I can afford it, but the difference between the "people before profits" approach the UK takes, with its much more diverse social safety net, and the "profits über alles" approach the US takes is stark. The only reason I'm still in this country is because my partner wants to stay, if I had my way, I'd be living on the beach in the UK, probably retired...
Oh, and she's an air-hostess for BA, her partner works for telecoms companies doing their wiring at the top of poles. THey're not particularly well off (I have a lot more disposable income as a FANNG s/w engineer) but their actual life is a lot easier.
1. UK fertility rate: 1.79, US fertility rate: 1.77. So not a very big difference in spite of seemingly huge differences in the system as you portray. What could be the reason?
2. You mention that you are in the valley and a FAANG engineer. Between my partner and me, we have experiences of 4 out of those 5. All of them had far more generous parental leave policies than "2 weeks paid leave" like you claim. Can you please name your company? Because it honestly doesn't jive with our experience as an engineer in the valley.
1. You're assuming there is a decision made by US couples / women about whether to have a child based on income. I don't think that conscious decision happens very often, I think there's a whole bunch of people who convince themselves they'll "get by" because reproduction is a basic drive. Fertility rate therefore would not be much affected by the level of family support, but the quality of life for the individuals concerned very much would be. It's that quality of life that I was trying to highlight.
2. I am in the valley. I work for Apple, and 9 years ago when the kid was born, Apple's policy on paternal leave was in fact 2 weeks paid leave, you could opt to use your vacation (which I did) after those 2 weeks, and you could cash in a week's accrued sick leave as well as a bonus if you had it, but that was it. It's better now, but that doesn't make my experience any different.
2(a) My wife worked for Chevron at the time, and their policy (who knows what it is now) was similarly 2 weeks of paid leave, then you can take accrued vacation, then you're back at work. She quit.
Reading back my original post, I can see it's confusing where I'm saying "I" and talking about being in hospital - I was trying to continue the "My sister":"Me" but it was of course my wife giving birth, not me.
Thanks for clarifying. I interpreted your original comment as the current state of affairs. From my first-hand experience, Apple's parental leave policies are far more generous now than just 2 weeks of paid leave.
I’m a big supporter of nationalised healthcare, but the UK doesn’t have a great fertility rate, comparable to the USA, suggesting this doesn’t have that much of an impact on people’s desire for children.
I can only speak from personal experience, but if you add up all the taxes I pay right now in the US, I pay a larger percentage of my income in the US than I did in the UK, and I get none of the advantages from the UK (healthcare, pension, social care, mobility, etc. etc.)
Now my salary is higher in the US than it was in the UK (despite the fact I owned the company in the UK, and I work as a software engineer over here) but that just makes things comparatively worse for the US. I used to get a larger percentage of my wages tax-free than I do here.
The lower cost of living in the UK helps out here - just comparing the dollar:pound ratio using currency exchange metrics doesn't make sense when I sold my (owned) house in the UK and used that to get a 15% down-payment on a house out here in the valley. Fifteen years later and I've finally (this week actually :) paid off the mortgage on my home here. That's 15 years of mortgage payments that I wouldn't have had to make, and my house in the UK was (almost) twice the size of the one I now own here.
All the comparisons are apples and oranges usually.
In the US if you're someone that works for a living you pay a lot of taxes once you add all the various ones up. In return the government provides you nothing at all. Where in places like the UK you pay a lot of taxes and you get public benefits in return. Like healthcare, decent schools, maternity leave, things like that.
One year in SF as a single man I calculated my total tax rate was about 45%. Add Federal taxes, withholding, state income tax, and 8% sales tax. Then add $800/mo health insurance.
But 45% with no benefits at all. Add 8% for healthcare. Add another 15% for retirement contributions. 45% + 8% + 15% -> 68%. But that's just me.
I talk to friends that have families that have lived in Europe and the US. And it's much easier in Europe. All the smoke and mirrors doesn't change that.
Basically yes if you have a lot of passive income then the US is much better. If you have middle class amounts of earned income it's worse to terrible.
She:
- Elected for a home birth, so the NHS put an ambulance on stand-by outside her house once the midwife said things were coming to a head, in case things went south.
- Had regular home-visits by the nurse after the birth until she was happy without them, which focus was both the child and my sister's well-being. no question too foolish to ask, practical advice, that sort of thing, you know ... support.
- Got 6 months paid off work (state + company perks)
- Got free daycare when the kid was young.
- Gets child-support payments from the government every 2 (?) weeks. Not much, but every little counts.
- Gets free-at-the-point-of-need healthcare, of course.
- Gets excellent free schooling, all the schools are rated above average where she lives, in a Northern city not known for its largesse.
I:
- was kicked out of hospital in 3 days because that's what the insurance would pay for
- had the nurses give me stuff to handle the first few days (bottles, nappies, etc.) under the table because they weren't actually allowed to.
- Got no support after we left the building
- Got 2 weeks paid leave.
- Almost had a nervous breakdown because of what we didn't know, had parents fly out to help and finally got some sleep after 2 weeks (he's an "active child"...)
- Had to bump up the insurance costs significantly from X+Spouse to X+family, because there's no X+Spouse+1, so we're indirectly paying for those with X+spouse+4
- Paid a fortune for daycare in the valley when it became time.
- Realised that our designated local school was bloody awful (3/10) despite being in a "good school district". Didn't win the lottery. So we pay for private school, currently about $15k/year
I can afford it, but the difference between the "people before profits" approach the UK takes, with its much more diverse social safety net, and the "profits über alles" approach the US takes is stark. The only reason I'm still in this country is because my partner wants to stay, if I had my way, I'd be living on the beach in the UK, probably retired...
Oh, and she's an air-hostess for BA, her partner works for telecoms companies doing their wiring at the top of poles. THey're not particularly well off (I have a lot more disposable income as a FANNG s/w engineer) but their actual life is a lot easier.