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> Spyware is NOT the same as gathering Telemetry data.

Telemetry and spyware differ only in the way collected data is used.



I would say the intent very much dictates the what and how of Telemetry as well. There's a huge difference between gathering data on feature usage of VSC vs e.g. slurping up the code from its users.

A lot of software lets you opt-out from Telemetry gathering when you install it. I would not think Spyware would do this.

And I feel like saying it's "only in the way collected data is used" really makes a small thing out of something that is very important. There's a very big difference in doing something maliciously and doing it to genuinely try to make your software better!


Actually there are of course different levels of bad like in any other area of human endeavor. Many criminals who would happily break your car window to steal your laptop wouldn't kill you to sell your Kidneys.

Lots of spyware that wants to remain on one side of a less dramatic divide simply provides "options" for example in the installer that are opt in and vaguely defined that no sane individual fully understanding his options would opt for.

Such software isn't usually cryptolocking your family pictures instead its frequently grossly violating your privacy and selling your time and attention to third parties who in turn may opt to use this bought and paid for back door into your computer to waste your time or cryptolock your family pictures.

Here's a clue. If you have to make a feature opt out because nobody on earth would opt in given time and expertise sufficient to understand your offer then you are victimizing your user. I cannot think of a case where any data collection being anything other than opt in would be acceptable.


> Telemetry and spyware differ only in the way collected data is used.

No, they first and foremost differ in the kind of data is collected. Spying is not spying if you anonymously collect information about how frequently a feature/future/option is used only.


What if you repeatedly fail to anonymize the information and also collect user-entered data like command line arguments?

https://github.com/dotnet/sdk/issues/6145


Well, you make my point. What you linked to is definitely not telemetry.


So is your point that what Microsoft is doing is in fact spyware and not technically "telemetry", since what I linked to is what they are actually doing? In that case, to avoid confusion, we should stop referring to it as telemetry.


Yes, agreed. In that example, that was spyware, but calling "telemetry" spyware by default is wrong.


> What you linked to is definitely not telemetry.

So, the OP was correct in calling it just spyware?

Why do people jump into defending corporations that repeatedly abuse their customers when they do unknowable hidden actions?


We're not defending any company here, don't twist my words. I am saying "telemetry" is not spyware, if it actually serves its purpose. Companies abusing "telemetry" to extract more information than they should is a different story.


I disagree - they are correct because once collected, the data is fed into a blackbox, and a user has no way of knowing if the data collected is - by your definition - spyware or telemetry. The beat way to treat this Schrodinger's telemetry, is to assume it's spyware.


Would it be OK if the NSA required it? No? Well, it's not OK for your OS vendor to require it, either.

And the illusion that it will always be possible to disable telemetry is just that, an illusion.




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