Good on you for reading and trying to respond! Most folks would not take the time, but I see from your notes that you did. For the sake of keeping a reasonable thread of conversation, I'll let the topic as a whole rest. I trust you'll believe me when I say I am ready to have a book-length conversation on any of those topics -- and if you're interested in one I will! -- but my purpose is educational, not adversarial. Even if you don't find my arguments convincing (and you would hardly be the only one), my purpose is to demonstrate to you that I am committed to an evidential and rational worldview, and that it is in fact this commitment that leads me to Christ.
"I don't know" is a perfectly good and, best of all, honest answer to some of the questions we have today.
You are absolutely right. I have argued in the past (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1797035) that having an explanation for everything is a sure sign of insanity. And I stand by that. So why does the frequent "I don't know" in atheism bother me?
I would say it is part of a pattern of poor explanations and shoulder shrugs that, when taken all together, bothers me.
It seems to me that if you're going to reject a worldview -- and atheism is fundamentally negative -- you should be an expert on the evidence for that view. That should be the area of your best alternative explanations, your most careful scholarship, your most reasoned opinions. Instead, I find that what atheists write about Christianity is sloppy, often factually incorrect, and filled with "I don't knows" in all the areas of the most convincing evidence. If they could give plausible alternative accounts of the origin of the Bible and church, that would be something, but more often than not, they can't even get wikipedia-able facts right!
I feel a bit like Galileo with his telescope, trying to show people the moons of Jupiter. "Look how these are always in a line, how they appear to revolve around the planet!" People generally have not (and will not) look into the telescope, and when they do, they say, "I don't know."
That's certainly their right. I would never deny that. But why would I find such skepticism in the face of evidence attractive?
Why would anyone find it rationally attractive?
I am of the opinion that the evidence will lead you away from sources that claim to know about the unknowable especially when those sources need to rely on threats of eternal punishment.
My experience differs. I've spent my adult live studying the evidence as honestly as I know how. And while I've lost and changed a lot of opinions over the years, my faith in the reality of God and the reliability of the Bible and the person of Jesus grow stronger every time I learn something new.
And I think you would be surprised at how hell figures into all of this. I like to say that life on earth is either a little heaven or a little hell. I don't so much choose heaven over hell for eternity as I choose heaven over hell for the next five minutes.
But let me ask you. If there was one thing I should read and study, one thing that would really blow my mind and make me doubt Christianity, what would you recommend?
As far as atheistic belief relying on vain things and Christians beliefing things despite riticule: the last I heard is that the statistic is like 93% of people believe in God. Is it also the case that atheists are still the most hated group in America? Either way, peer pressure doesn't work that way. If you want pride you will find it on any side of any argument, just as you will find smarmy repugnent a-holes, and complete idiots. I'm sorry that you seem to have had many bad encounters. All I can say is that it seems like it is easy to become embittered on the internet by all of the rampent inflamatory crap on here. Sorry.
Well, those 93% are hardly kind to each other. The experience of following Christ in Christian society is often like the experience of Telemachus in Christian Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Telemachus).
But your point is fair -- everyone has troubles, and persecution does not justify anyway.
"I don't know" is a perfectly good and, best of all, honest answer to some of the questions we have today.
You are absolutely right. I have argued in the past (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1797035) that having an explanation for everything is a sure sign of insanity. And I stand by that. So why does the frequent "I don't know" in atheism bother me?
I would say it is part of a pattern of poor explanations and shoulder shrugs that, when taken all together, bothers me.
It seems to me that if you're going to reject a worldview -- and atheism is fundamentally negative -- you should be an expert on the evidence for that view. That should be the area of your best alternative explanations, your most careful scholarship, your most reasoned opinions. Instead, I find that what atheists write about Christianity is sloppy, often factually incorrect, and filled with "I don't knows" in all the areas of the most convincing evidence. If they could give plausible alternative accounts of the origin of the Bible and church, that would be something, but more often than not, they can't even get wikipedia-able facts right!
I feel a bit like Galileo with his telescope, trying to show people the moons of Jupiter. "Look how these are always in a line, how they appear to revolve around the planet!" People generally have not (and will not) look into the telescope, and when they do, they say, "I don't know."
That's certainly their right. I would never deny that. But why would I find such skepticism in the face of evidence attractive?
Why would anyone find it rationally attractive?
I am of the opinion that the evidence will lead you away from sources that claim to know about the unknowable especially when those sources need to rely on threats of eternal punishment.
My experience differs. I've spent my adult live studying the evidence as honestly as I know how. And while I've lost and changed a lot of opinions over the years, my faith in the reality of God and the reliability of the Bible and the person of Jesus grow stronger every time I learn something new.
And I think you would be surprised at how hell figures into all of this. I like to say that life on earth is either a little heaven or a little hell. I don't so much choose heaven over hell for eternity as I choose heaven over hell for the next five minutes.
But let me ask you. If there was one thing I should read and study, one thing that would really blow my mind and make me doubt Christianity, what would you recommend?
As far as atheistic belief relying on vain things and Christians beliefing things despite riticule: the last I heard is that the statistic is like 93% of people believe in God. Is it also the case that atheists are still the most hated group in America? Either way, peer pressure doesn't work that way. If you want pride you will find it on any side of any argument, just as you will find smarmy repugnent a-holes, and complete idiots. I'm sorry that you seem to have had many bad encounters. All I can say is that it seems like it is easy to become embittered on the internet by all of the rampent inflamatory crap on here. Sorry.
Well, those 93% are hardly kind to each other. The experience of following Christ in Christian society is often like the experience of Telemachus in Christian Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Telemachus).
But your point is fair -- everyone has troubles, and persecution does not justify anyway.
And thank you.