> Does anyone actually think dojo has a future compared to the power that jquery gives to make your own "widgets" but far simpler than dojo?
It really depends on what you're trying to do, I suspect. I'm on the jQuery core team and it's nice to have a lot of people building off our work.
> The simplest tutorials in the dojo documentation put html tags in the JavaScript code. Generating them like strings.
Yes, simple documentation examples often have HTML in them, the jQuery docs do it too at times. It's a lot harder to build real examples without all the extra stuff getting in the way of the simple concept you're trying to demonstrate.
Go into your browser's debugger and look at how many apps (including jQuery-based ones) are written. They use MVC frameworks but then create big chunks of HTML in JavaScript to generate the views rather than using templates. Here's one for example, from a very large newspaper site:
http://i.imgur.com/a4R6I.png
Are you saying that jQuery is to blame for this app using embedded HTML, since we sometimes use it in our demonstrations for the docs?
> Dojo is too big, too complicated and bloated. It should be split up/down in all its major components.
Waitaminit, I thought jQuery was too complicated and bloated, at least that's what several people here were telling me when I posted the announcement here about jQuery 1.7 being released.
Most likely a big app needs darn near every byte of the base library it includes. Go over and look at the Mootools configurable download builder and tell me which of those checkboxes you could leave empty on a big project. Many of these big apps are more than half a megabyte of minified code. All of jQuery is about 92KB and Dojo is 100KB. I have seen the other 400+KB, and it is the problem.
Just like programming languages, libraries can be used improperly. Don't blame the library for the people who misuse it.
Most apps I worked on required only querying and events. Animations can be done with css3, but if we wherent working with html5 then simple fadein/out animations are also required.
Specifically dojo has this useless dijit widget collection. For any serious web app I doubt you would find dijit suitable to exactly your needs. Which means you have to develop your own using the query/animation/events api.
"Most apps I worked on required only querying and events."
Well, that's not really quite the background to call the dojo widgets useless. They are a really useful set of _programmable_ widgets.
Aye, they _might_ appear to be useless to developers used to cut & paste, but if you delve a little deeper you will discover a world of useful UI widgets that can fulfill most of your needs for rich web applications.
If your needs aren't fulfilled with the provided widgets you can always make your own or modify the existing ones with the tools provided, that I must say are great at it.
Because there is really no need for the widgets dojo provides. In every project where a widget kind of thing was required - the requirement also included it to be developed in house, exactly suited to our needs. If we would have chosen dojo widgets we would have had to alter them heavily to do what we want, the way we want it, the way it fits with our codebase. We did that once though, and learned not do try that again.
How is using dojo widgets not "cut and paste"? Thats exactly what cut and paste is, all the jQuery stuff we develop is our own, not cut and pasted. If we really wanted to use dojo widgets, some in the team would have to dig deep into dijit, which makes the whole thing useless since they might as well develop their own "widgets" using jquery in less time, and less maintenence, and less dependency on yet another abstraction/library.
It really depends on what you're trying to do, I suspect. I'm on the jQuery core team and it's nice to have a lot of people building off our work.
> The simplest tutorials in the dojo documentation put html tags in the JavaScript code. Generating them like strings.
Yes, simple documentation examples often have HTML in them, the jQuery docs do it too at times. It's a lot harder to build real examples without all the extra stuff getting in the way of the simple concept you're trying to demonstrate.
Go into your browser's debugger and look at how many apps (including jQuery-based ones) are written. They use MVC frameworks but then create big chunks of HTML in JavaScript to generate the views rather than using templates. Here's one for example, from a very large newspaper site: http://i.imgur.com/a4R6I.png
Are you saying that jQuery is to blame for this app using embedded HTML, since we sometimes use it in our demonstrations for the docs?
> Dojo is too big, too complicated and bloated. It should be split up/down in all its major components.
Waitaminit, I thought jQuery was too complicated and bloated, at least that's what several people here were telling me when I posted the announcement here about jQuery 1.7 being released.
Most likely a big app needs darn near every byte of the base library it includes. Go over and look at the Mootools configurable download builder and tell me which of those checkboxes you could leave empty on a big project. Many of these big apps are more than half a megabyte of minified code. All of jQuery is about 92KB and Dojo is 100KB. I have seen the other 400+KB, and it is the problem.
Just like programming languages, libraries can be used improperly. Don't blame the library for the people who misuse it.