I once got to watch the sunset from the peak of Mauna Kea. After descending to a less stressful altitude, we spent some time stargazing. I've never seen the sky like that before, or since; it felt like you could see the depth in the galaxy. I was no longer looking up at the dome of the sky, studded with stars; I was looking out, from the side of a planet, into the wide open space of the universe.
I had planned a trip to the Haleakala Crater in Maui for the highly-recommended sunrise, and our airBnb turned out to have a pretty significant ant problem, so we ended up going a few hours early.
I don't know why anyone would even mention the sunrise considering how incredible that night sky was. The experience was similar to seeing the grand canyon: too big, beautiful, and intricate for my brain to take it all in. It was absolutely breathtaking. Also, absurdly cold (we were well prepared and it was still not enough)
The sunrise was fine. Very pretty, to be sure. But the main event was that night sky, for which I would have shown up a few hours earlier than I did had I known about it.
I completely agree with your overall point about the fantastic night sky but it should be no surprise that people suggest sunrise, as the Hawaiian Haleakala literally translates to "house of the sun".
I didn't know that, thanks. Also, I don't think it's _not_ worth going up there for the sunrise. It is. It's beautiful, and probably worth the drive.
I mostly just think it's weird that nobody even _mentions_ the transcendent night sky you might happen upon during a new moon or moonless part of the night.
I had the same experience at around 10,000 ft in the cascades. Once you're above the thickest part of the atmosphere, a whole new dimension opens up in the sky. Everywhere you look, in the space between the stars, there are more stars, infinitely receding to the edge of the universe. The sky starts to look more like a fractal than a few points of light scattered around.
I have never been at that altitude but I had a similar experience in the Sahara a few years ago. My experience was enhanced with a little bit of Moroccan hashish. I laid on a dune and gazed at the sky and the heavens were blazing with light. I felt like I was falling into the stars. It was unforgettable. A clear sky at night is the farthest thing from dark!
It sounds like to get these experiences I'm going to have to go far out of my way and pay a lot of money. Our ancient ancestors got it for free, and I wonder if they thought anything of it.
We probably owe the roots of all science (and thus technology) to the clear dark sky observations of ancient ancestors. Astronomical observatories were common in all early civilizations and it there where some of the roots of mathematical thinking begin (the other being credit accounting tools :-)
Astronomical observations are in a sense simpler and cleaner (and until the invention of accurate timepieces, compasses etc.) also of extreme practical use.
The reason is likely that our normal down-to-Earth environment is too complex and chaotic to be parsed. Observation of nearby processes gets things wrong because of overlapping effects. E.g. Aristotle thought that the natural state is for things to stop moving when they stop being pushed by a force. This is only the case because down here friction is dominant.
> have to go far out of my way and pay a lot of money
it should not be like this. A lot of light pollution is due to just not giving a damn about side-effects.
I’ve considered whether the human concept of religion is possibly rooted in debates as to whether other things are out there. Because once you’ve had that conscious thought I think it’s a short hop to making up stories about who/what it is that could be living out there. Time passes and it becomes indoctrination for many, and on the mind for most at times of their life even if just out of curiosity.
Definitely not on a hill over this but it’s just been a thought I’ve wrestled with at some point. I’m sure it’s not even original at all.
True religion at its core is about insuring happiness, and a big part of being happy is having a way to explain the world around you so your mind is at ease.
Sure, they didn't have to pay with money, past a certain point they didn't even use money, but they paid with (much) shorter lives. Money is just the cost of self-determination.
But if you just want to get somewhere on top of a mountain with no light pollution, you don't have to spend very much money, unless you happen to live in an area of the world with no mountains.
> Sure, they didn't have to pay with money, past a certain point they didn't even use money, but they paid with (much) shorter lives. Money is just the cost of self-determination.
the cost of a clear night sky does not have to be "no technology". We don't need nearly as many streetlights, lighted signs, houselights, etc as we have.
I've lived in areas where regulation restricts lighting choices; it is a good thing.
Excess lighting is called light pollution, and it is a societal choice to put up with it. Society can choose otherwise and help us rediscover our wonder at the world.
If you live in the northeast of the US, Medawisla is a fantastic "dark sky park" located in Maine. Unforgettable experience, highest possible reccomendation.
Far out of your way depending on where you live, sure, but not necessarily pay a lot of money.
Like I got to see the Milky Way up in the Porcupine Mountains a couple of years ago in Northern Michigan, off the shore of Lake Superior, while my wife was hunting for Yooperlites (rocks that glow under a UV light) on the beach late at night. Other than an 8 hour drive's worth of gas and a fairly inexpensive AirBnb it didn't cost anything extra to see it.
And you can always move to one of these places, too, and see it all the time. Solidly middle class homes up there can be had for about $200k in small towns/cities, then you only need to drive about 15 minutes to get out of town to see it.
And if you're in the western US, it looks like there's a lot more options. Much darker in general out there outside the major cities.
I do miss when you could see these things just outside of town in Illinois though. Used to drive just a bit outside of town and park on the side of a rural road and just look up and see it, when I was a kid/teen. There's almost no place in Illinois where you can see the Milky Way nowadays (and where I live now it's gray-white on the map, so I only see a few pin points in the sky right now, it's terrible).
The Milky Way is visible most nights (except when cloudy) on St. George Island, Florida, about 60 minutes from Tallahassee or 6.5 hours drive from Atlanta. It's stunning. Most nights I saw meteors as well. However, the northern sky is a little obstructed by trees.
White Sands National Monument in New Mexico has incredible views of the stars.
I saw beautiful stars canoeing on a lake in the Adirondack mountains.
I once saw comet Hyakutake by accident when I was riding in the back of a van on the Pennsylvania Turnpike. I think it was around the Fort Littleton exit.
I suppose it depends on your starting point how expensive it is to see the stars. However, I agree that there is just too much artificial light. I get that we feel much safer and less bored, but there's something lost by not having the easy access to the night sky.
> Our ancient ancestors got it for free, and I wonder if they thought anything of it.
Not sure what they thought of it, but I think it's telling how aware they were of the night sky as an active environment, e.g. the movements of the planets, and the relationships between events in the sky and our seasons (even though the their explanatory models were wrong).
On a clear night - especially in winter - before the invention of fire, it's all you'd be aware of. No wonder that they made patterns (constellations) of the brighter stars.
