Aren't cheques even worse for privacy though? Not only your bank knows exactly who you paid and how much, the seller also now has your actual name since it's just written on the cheque - at least when paying by card they get nothing.

Maybe I'm getting it wrong - cheques are something I've only seen in films, in my country no bank accepts them since 2020 anymore, they've been completely phased out.

I was given a chequebook when I opened my current bank account in 2004, I've written 8, all of them in the first 10 years.

Same, until I moved to a rural area. I did a lot of research about this place but didn't discover the pervasiveness of the cash society until I moved here.

Last I looked, checks had privacy regulations. Most other payment methods don't really. I'm also my bank's customer. For most payment companies, I'm the product.

What sort of "privacy regulations?"

Here - that being outside of Austin in Texas - I think the root causes for this behavior lie with tax cheats and ineptitude.

Checks certainly are not completely phased out in your country, just no longer common for consumers.

And shopkeepers can still take a name off a card.

You'd be surprised. I visited South America and all I saw was phone payments... They basically skipped the credit card age, as cards were never popular among the poor.

How is it behind? I've not been at a store in a while that I couldn't use apple pay or a card? I know it's popular to bag on America, but I figure most of HN is better than that.

Until Apple Pay and other smartphone-related payment methods became common, the USA credit card was technologically behind much of Europe, Canada, and other developed countries.

Chip-and-PIN (EMV, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMV) is the standard in Europe and Canada for relaying credit card info & authentication.

Many USA retailers were stuck using the credit card's magnetic stripe for entering card info. Evidently the USA still hasn't moved to Chip-and-PIN, with Chip and Signature being more common. Updating the point-of-sale terminals has been the chokepoint supposedly, https://lauraclery.com/chip-and-pin-united-states/.

Bank accounts directly I’d assume. Why add another layer of indirection?

It varies by country but a lot of them are just virtual debit and credit cards because the payments run over the card network rails.

I use very little cash in MA. But checks are still pretty much the default for a lot of people doing various services for me. I can just leave a check for someone like my housekeeper. I could presumably make arrangements to pay in a different form (including cash) but why bother? And, in many cases, it's my bank actually "writing" the check and delivering it.

I'd change if it became an aberration or weird to do but it's just not a problem in general. (And I wouldn't try to pay by check or cash at Walmart for example.)

The lack of fast free digital money transfer infrastructure in the U.S. is something that seems crazy to anyone in the EU.

Every EU country (and the UK) has had fast free digital bank transfers for decades now. Here in the UK we pay all “casual” services like cleaners, dog walkers etc via a simple, quick bank transfer. It’s great, I don’t need to keep cash, and person providing the services has the money in their account, ready to spend, about 500ms after I tap the “send” button on my phone.

I can see how cheques are convenient for purchasers, but for suppliers they’re a bit of nightmare, as they need physically deliver the cheque to cash it. Then wait for it to clear, and also take on all the risk of it bouncing. All of that just goes away with proper digital money transfer technologies.

FedNow (https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/fednow_about.h...) just went live in July, 2023. It will take some time for adoption.

We have free digital money transfer in the United States. Venmo, Zelle, PayPal, Cash App, etc. I don't know why you'd believe otherwise.

The are two problems with this: 1. You need to have all 4 to reach a significant fraction of the population. 2. They are fake real-time transfers [the app says the money has been transferred but it won't actually be delivered for a couple days] instead of actual real-time transfers (which Europe has). This means there are much more susceptible to fraud [you think the sender has sent you the money--so you ship him the goods or whatever--and the next morning or so the money is gone from your account.]

That's wild. Here in the UK, tradespeople usually have a card reader, or some accept bank transfers.

It's becoming more common but for someone like my housekeeper, I may not even be home and can just leave a check on the counter. As I say, I could doubtless make alternative arrangements but a check is the default and it's easy.

For someone I need to pay regularly like a cleaner I would set up a bank transfer recipient in my banking app (or website) and then payments - either one offs or regularly scheduled - are simple, instant and free.

And so is writing a check and leaving it on the counter--especially for a service that is somewhat predictable but actually isn't on a set schedule. She texts me that she's coming next week, I write a check and leave it on the counter, done.

Well, it's not really done, is it? She has to go to the bank and cash the check, right? It's not the end of the world, sure, but it's an extra trip compared with a bank transfer -- with a bank transfer she has the money ready to be used immediately.

>She has to go to the bank and cash the check, right?

I'm guessing she has a banking app like I do that lets her deposit the check in about a minute?

Between the bank writing/mailing checks for you to pay bills and an app you can use to deposit checks, checks just aren't the friction that they used to be. That's probably a big reason why there just isn't a big outcry in the US to get away from checks. For most of us, it's just way, way down the list of day to day pain points.

I believe (even in the US!) you can pay in a check by taking a photo in your bank app.

The money isn't instant though. People paying for such services with a cheque would do well living a few weeks in someone else's shoes.

90% of the people I'm paying are businesses. If an individual wants cash they can ask and I'll pay cash. I wouldn't just assume someone prefers everyone to be paying them in cash or screwing around with various electronic payment options that aren't super-common where I live.

My house cost $240 to clean. Handing around fat envelopes like a wise guy is a macho dream but not practical.

Wow, a whole 4 bills - that envelope must be bursting at the seams.

The argument was for electronic payment against cheques.

OK, good to hear.

It typically is these days.

piling up 20 checks for the week and going to the bank for 10 minutes isn't a big deal to most people.

most here won't take it. My maid won't. They will take venmo, check, or cash though.

The vast vast majority of tradespeople in Texas are what’s called “cash under the table”. They don’t report their income and so never pay taxes. All take cash only or something like a check made out to “cash” instead of a name. It’s how many “poor” families qualify for assistance yet drive $100k pickups and all their kids have the latest iPhones and gaming systems.

They do here in the US as well. It's not high-tech. Unless you get a sole proprietorship handyman or something, they'll likely take a card. Most will charge you the 3.5% or so extra for card payment though because that's what they have to pay.

In CT I use Venmo and Zelle to pay just about everyone. Cleaner, yard guy, electrician, plumber, handyman, etc

Everyone takes Zelle or Venmo.

> I live an hour or so outside of Austin and people still primarily write checks

I can’t think of an area within 65 miles of downtown Austin where checks would be common. Which direction from Austin do you live? East maybe?