"The government making something illegal really should be the last resort for societal problems."
Except that the ease to which people can now rent out an apartment short term has created a situation that was not contemplated by existing laws (or if there were existing laws they were not violated to the extent to make enforcement necessary).
Let's take as an example, spam. The founding fathers of the Internet didn't anticipate that the scholarly people who first used the internet would violate the unwritten rules to not spam. The community was small enough and the members respectful enough that it wasn't even designed into the system (let's assume there could have been a technical way to prevent spam in the original design for a second).
But with the success of the internet and it being opened up to everyone the game changed.
"I'm not convinced short-term rentals are really so harmful"
If you've ever had bad neighbors you will understand why people often want a single family home with lots of land or want to live in an exclusive building.
I don't think Hilton, Hyatt, Wyndham or Marriott give a shit about Airbnb; they do a full Airbnb valuation of real revenue every other quarter, and the market they service isn't "random places to stay", it's "hotel rooms".
The preponderance of evidence available to message board nerds like us suggests strongly to me that enforcement of these laws is being driven by real complaints.
Airbnb is a future threat to the hotel industry. I'm sure they recognize that. Most people are potential "hotels". This will keep rates low AND attract new entrants (because some money is better than no money).
Airbnb rooms are usually more pleasant than the lower quality hotels a lot of businesses book.
Once it becomes socially normal in larger corporations, a lot of employees will ask to be booked with airbnb.
Everything you say here is obvious; you are making the obvious case that the big bad hotel industry is conspiring to shut down Airbnb. Anyone on HN would, if asked to advocate the position that hotels were conspiring against Airbnb, make exactly the same case.
I'm saying: I doubt that's what's happening. I've heard too many anecdotal stories about complaints, and am too capable of looking at (a) revenue numbers for hotels and (b) stats on how people book hotel rooms to think that anyone at Marriott is really being kept up at night about this.
At some point, Airbnb will be too big and disruptive for the major chains to ignore. But now? I doubt it. I think cities are reacting to complaints.
I didn't say the hotel industry is behind the laws. I have no idea what's begin them.
I said, I'm sure some people in the hotel industry recognize airbnbs potential threat. I was responding to your first paragraph. I should have been clearer.
> Airbnb rooms are usually more pleasant than the lower quality hotels a lot of businesses book.
I suggest you browse areas with high AirBNB usage. In NYC, a nice AirBNB will cost roughly the same as the equivalent hotel room.
> Once it becomes socially normal in larger corporations, a lot of employees will ask to be booked with airbnb.
This is unlikely. The only reason to choose AirBNB is price, and the low price options in popular destinations are rarely particularly nice.
As a corporation, we're willing to spend the money necessary to be guaranteed determinism. Nobody in the travel department would want to deal with rebooking an employee if their AirBNB experience turned out to be poor.
I can book an employee a room at The Intercontinental and I know that there will be no issues, and we can worry about things that actually matter, like getting work done.
What you say about Airbnb vs. hotel costs in NYC is wildly not my experience. At the high end, the rooms available on Airbnb simply aren't available in hotels at all; I'd wager, if you did your best at apples-apples, Airbnb is roughly half as expensive as a hotel room.
The nondeterminism thing with Abnb is a good point. I've always figured that if something fell through, I'd just book a same-night hotel, but it was a concern.
Two NYC-area Abnb rentals, off the top of my head:
* A 4-bedroom 2-storey attached (townhouse-style) house in W'burg, less than a block from the Bedford stop; full kitchen, back yard(!). Cost less than any 3-star pair of adjoining bedrooms we could find --- and we booked 2 months in advance.
* A full-kitchen king bed studio in Chelsea, for ~150/night.
The last one is from a few months ago, the other from last year.
By the way: both of these feel like textbook cases of the kind of situation where Abnb is a win for everyone involved. The owner of the house was picky about us, checked in on us while we were there, and was renting a whole building to one party. The Chelsea apartment was its occupant's primary residence; they were renting it out while themselves traveling.
I think it's the situations where people are literally running full-time businesses on top of Abnb where we start to run into trouble.
My argument isn't based on price. Some people will always prefer hotels. You know exactly what you're getting.
Others prefer the airbnb experience, even at the same price. You get to meet new people, cook your own food if you want (anyone eating a special diet wants this), you often get to stay in a smaller building with its own style.
Some people hate all that stuff. But less than 100% of current hotel bookers. Enough people love what airbnb offers that this should start making a difference at the margins.
NYC may have more problems. I'm in Montreal, where there are a lot of renters but few horror stories.
In any case, the airbnb review system is getting better. People will learn how to avoid the dumps.
My argument isn't based on price. Some people will always prefer hotels. You know exactly what you're getting.
Others prefer the airbnb experience, even at the same price. You get to meet new people, cook your own food if you want (anyone eating a special diet wants this), you often get to stay in a smaller building.
Some people hate all that stuff. But less than 100% of current hotel bookers. Enough people love what airbnb offers that this should start making a difference at the margins.
NYC may have more problems. I'm in Montreal, where there are a lot of renters but few horror stories.
In any case, the airbnb review system is getting better. People will learn how to avoid the dumps.
If it is like you say, it sounds a bit overboard to shut down everything. Maybe with some effort they could come up with regulation to solve those complaints while keeping the good renters legal.
Here's another thing to think about: over the long run, regulation can help business; lack of regulation might harm it.
When we talk about regs on HN, we tend to be thinking of rules, codes, and controls restricting what businesses can do. That's obviously a major function of regulation.
But another function of regulation is removal of uncertainty.
The alternative to regulation is contract and tort law. Airbnb participants who violate leases and homeowners agreements will be sued for breach; participants who create noise, theft, crime, and increased costs for neighbors will be sued for tort claims.
Court cases take for- fucking- ever to resolve themselves. Every B2B case I've witnessed up close dragged until it settled --- I've never seen (firsthand) a company stick it out to trial. The one (trivial) case I was involved in directly --- a statutory claim for unlawfully withheld security deposits --- took years to resolve.
Perhaps partly in recognition of that, and partly because of the spectacular cost of representation, the damages awarded in these cases can be enormous.
Except that the ease to which people can now rent out an apartment short term has created a situation that was not contemplated by existing laws (or if there were existing laws they were not violated to the extent to make enforcement necessary).
Let's take as an example, spam. The founding fathers of the Internet didn't anticipate that the scholarly people who first used the internet would violate the unwritten rules to not spam. The community was small enough and the members respectful enough that it wasn't even designed into the system (let's assume there could have been a technical way to prevent spam in the original design for a second).
But with the success of the internet and it being opened up to everyone the game changed.
"I'm not convinced short-term rentals are really so harmful"
If you've ever had bad neighbors you will understand why people often want a single family home with lots of land or want to live in an exclusive building.