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It's so much worse on Windows 11 too. There is a noticeable lag in opening the picker, and—unlike 10 where you could immediately start typing to search—on Windows 11 if you start typing before it's fully open, it just types your search text in the focused window and never opens the emoji picker. It just totally cancels it if you type too fast.


> It's so much worse on Windows 11 too. There is a noticeable lag

I think you can pretty much say that about everything in Windows 11. Seeing the XP emulation on the front page yesterday reminded me how grotesquely slow 10 and 11 are. Honestly I wonder if you ran one of the old Windows versions on period hardware how it would compare to now. And then keeping the period hardware but if you swapped to an SSD I bet it would fly. But maybe it's rose-tinted glasses.

Personally I preferred Vista to 7 (7 took away a bunch of nice things). Even as bad as Windows Me was from a stability point of view, it at least added new features. I'd be hard-pressed to think of anything that Windows 11 does better than before.


It's not rose tinted glasses, someone on twitter recently did exactly that.

Windows 2000 was snappy. Incredibly so.

I'd try to dig it up but search is so fundamentally broken these days I can't find it.


Probably this? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36446933

I definitely thought that was less than two years ago...sigh

That video touches on something else that drives me crazy: the decay of keyboard shortcuts

--

All that being said, I will play devil's advocate for at least one modern luxury that I wouldn't want to live without that I can understand makes performance more difficult: per-monitor DPI that can change on the fly. But still: 8.1 (with ClassicShell) was fairly snappy


Thanks, I think that was it.

Yes, there are always "reasons", but things have got dramatically worse, with especially 8 -> 10 -> 11.

It particularly annoys me when apps/widget/utilities partially load in and sit there with nothing but a blank chrome, slowly partially rendering.

It's a plague that has affected everything, even Task Manager.


Oh man, don't even get me started on Task Manager. Which used to be pretty-much bulletproof, because they understood the assignment: https://old.reddit.com/r/techsupport/comments/gqb915/i_wrote...

Now, holy smokes - what a dumpster fire. Most of the time it doesn't get me out of trouble anymore. Here are some of my favorite Windows 11 UI changes:

- complete waste of space on the side now. it doesn't even save any vertical space because of how bloated it is

- nonsense iconography on the side (services, startup apps in particular)

- Processes: "..." overflow has one item, View. I get that they want it more touch friendly but even then how clunky is that to navigate?!

- Performance: Resource Monitor was right there, now it is again buried in a stupid "..." menu, again to save space for...nothing?

- Details: The column picker is preposterous. It was already annoying before, mostly because you couldn't resize it, but they didn't fix that, no. Now you can see only 5 columns at a time. I seem to remember the column selection used to be a bit better before Windows 8 or 10 (like there was some other way to get that menu besides right-clicking the column headers) but I can't easily check

- In general I find that "Processes", "Performance", and "Details" all disagree about CPU usage

Tip: `taskmgr -d` runs the previous UI


The UI for taskmanager was never great. Your link says so too. It's full of stuff like

"If all your titlebars disappear and you just have a graph, double-click dead client space to switch back to normal mode"

and

"If Task Manager ever hangs or crashes, start another by pressing ctrl-shift-esc."

and

"If Task Manager ever becomes internally corrupted, kill/close it. Restart it while holding down CTRL, ALT, and SHIFT, and Task Manager will reset ALL internal settings to factory fresh"

How to discover any of this except by reading a reddit post by the developer?

"There should be nothing that TaskMgr can't kill - it will even escalate privilege and (if you have it) enable debug privilege to attach to and kill apps that way if needed."

Why is this even necessary? It's a part of the OS, it should not need One Weird Trick to kill processes.


> the decay of keyboard shortcuts

Also happened on Gnome.

There's a general anti-keyboard conspiracy.


>> Honestly I wonder if you ran one of the old Windows versions on period hardware how it would compare to now.

I have a feeling if you high-end hardware of that period, it will feel faster than win11 on high-end hardware now.

However, the other software also evolved. You almost cannot use modern internet with old browser.


I'm on Win11 Pro and I have no lag at all.


Many such cases. I'm trying to ward off Windows 11 for as long as I can, as I did with Windows 10 before it. Windows 7 is still the peak of "get out of my way and let me get things done" OS from Microsoft.

Edit: The latest attack came in the form of a full-screen system level (covered the taskbar) advert for Windows 11 when I logged in a few weeks ago, complete with all the dark patters we expect from our tech overlords in 2025. Now the windows update status icon also has a constant blue dot on it. Clicking it lets me know I should upgrade to Windows 11 ASAP. Realistically, I'll probably reluctantly switch once Steam stops supporting Windows 10.


Even with gaming, monitoring the nvidia subreddit around new drivers, it seems like Windows 11 is not nearly as solid. I think there was some MPO (multi-plane overlay) thing that has plagued 24H2 for months?

Also can't avoid mentioning Windows 11 gaming without the middle finger that is discontinuing Windows Mixed Reality and bricking the headsets. Thankfully someone looks to be making a SteamVR driver for it (https://old.reddit.com/r/WindowsMR/comments/1l65ji8/things_a...), but what a pathetic shame he's doing it on his own time rather than MS paying the pocket change it would have taken to do it


Which SKU of Windows 10?


I bet it is yet another component that has migrated away from UWP/WinUI into Webview2, hence the lag.


Waiting for Windows 12, where the entire UI will run in an electron container.


Then I’ll wait for Windows 13, where all of it has been rewritten in JS.


Initially that was a big preposition for WinRT, actually.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinJS

When Windows 8 was initially previewed at Microsoft's developers conference, .NET wasn't still part of the overall picture.


I wish someone would explain to me the rationale of spending time and resources migrating to something to make it worse.


Talent pool

How many people are proficient enough in C nowadays to maintain the old shell?


It’s the world’s most popular desktop operating system. They can afford to hire capable software engineers.


They can afford it but it probably won't increase Windows revenue, which is anyway only ~10% of their income. If they could make upgrades that people would pay $$$ for like in the Win95 days they'd be motivated to try but desktop OS is a mature segment, and people expect updates to be free now, so it kills the incentives to do anything.


As if, see recent offshoring issues with US software delivery.


Surely if Microsoft was consistently hiring devs proficient in C, there would be more devs proficient in C, no?


I spent a good few hours contemplating this over the last couple of years and the only rational answer I can find is that they are, apologies for language, just complete fucking morons.


Like the sibling comment points out.

I drank the WinRT Kool Aid between Windows 8, Windows Phone and the clear failure of Project Reunion.

Still I keep myself around, expecially to warn newbies that whatever Microsoft is selling for WinUI, regardless of the shiny cover, the book inside is roten.

Whatever I have learnt from community calls and endless Github discussions, is that most new interns never did Windows development before landing on Windows team.

The calls are available on YouTube, mostly young, puzzled looks when questioned about feature XYZ coming to Windows, not even understanding issues that come from Windows 8 and 8.1 UAP model, that predated UWP, among other possible examples.

I would dare to say they did all their studies in UNIX world, Apple, Google devices, before landing a job at Microsoft.

So Web technologies it is.

Note I am not blaming them, each one gets to learn what they can, how they can.

The blame lies on upper management of a 4 trillion valued company, that isn't able to put in place the resources and learnings, so that the team can actually deliver, as it used to be during the 3x "Developers!" dance.




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