Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

(Using a throw away account because of the stigma)

For those who are curious if ADHD is real? I can tell you, from my personal experience, it is.

I grew up with it all my life. It is hell. Then I randomly decided to try Paleo (cutting out gluten, sugar, grain and caffeine). And my ADHD is gone. I can focus, my mental fog is lifted, my lethargy is gone, I have the ability to enjoy normal activities.

* My personal Proof: In the last 2 years about 15 times I have cheated on my Paleo diet, by eating bread or a decent amount of sugar. About 12 out of 15 of those times my brain chemistry was quickly affected. I had my old impairments and extreme inability to focus.

* I realize the causes for ADHD for me are not necessarily the same as others. It's probably a host of causes that affect the brain in a similar way. However, I am sure there are more people out there who are like me. FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE MY ALLERGY TO GLUTEN: ADHD IS A REAL DISEASE. AND IT IS HELL.

## What it feels like to have ADD/ADHD

Because I can intentionally turn off my ADHD by eating Paleo or turn it back on, like clock work by eating grain or sugar, I can tell you what having ADHD is like in a very exact way.

# Eating Paleo for 3 weeks straight (no ADHD):

I still don’t feel like doing work often time. Some time work sounds fun and some time it doesn’t. Its the same feeling I saw most my peers in college have towards work.

If I don’t feel like doing something I really have to find a reason to make my self do it. (Basically the standard thing non ADD people say).

# With ADHD (eating a piece of bread)

Unexplainable feeling of mental uncomfortableness (EXTREME, HORRIBLE, and PAINFUL boredom) that can only be slightly assuaged with heavy distraction.

Want to know what it feels like?

- Imagine being on a 10 hour flight that just landed, you can’t wait to get up and walk out into the terminal, however, each person in front of you is taking longer and longer to get their stuff. Before you know it you have been sitting in your seat for over an hour waiting to get off. You are sitting in your seat unable to comfort your feelings of boredom and discomfort with the wait. Now multiply that negative feeling by 10. You might start to be rude to people just so that you have something to distract your pain with. You might start making dumb noises so people will stair at you and give you attention. This attention will help distract the unfathomable boredom/pain you are feeling.

(In one of my college classes I would take my rolling chair and go up and down a slight ramp in the class room while the teacher was giving lecture. I knew I was being and idiot. I knew I wanted to pay attention to the teacher and learn. However, the brief and little relief this distraction gave me was incredibly tempting. I would rather do things that made me feel pathetic than feel the pain of ADHD.)

- Imagine your mental capacity to think and remember words is cut by about 20-50%

- Imagine your motivation to work towards your dreams is cut by about 20-50%

- Imagine you can’t think of anything in the world that would excite you. Everything seems so un entertaining and boring. And this is not depression. I can be extremely happy and simply just eat a piece of bread and my whole mental mood changes. I feel like I am under a drug that gives me ADHD. It doesn’t make me depressed. It just makes everything seem so un satisfying (in regards to entertainment). Growing up I couldn’t play video games longer than 20 mins, even for the most critically acclaimed games, I would become mind numbingly bored.

So thats what having ADHD is like, its REAL (well I can only speak for myself).

I’m probably a lot like many people here reading this on HN: I am extremely smart but struggled in school due to my ADHD. I got good grades in physics classes such as special relativity and decent grades in advanced math classes such as calc III. In spite of my ADHD. I wouldn’t study or do homework. Well sometimes I would copy homework. And luckily I took enough a way from lecture to get good grades on the tests.

However, I never ended up finishing my degree because as time went on I couldn’t keep up the good grades as my programming classes depended more on more doing actual work. I remember getting an B in systems programming in C class because I set the curve on all the tests. I finished many of the programs (starting the night before they were do), however I didn’t even turn in the last three programs (I felt so pathetic). But soon the demands in classes start to become greater. They weren’t just programs I could do in a 12 hour marathon the night before. I even tried 5 different ADHD drugs over a 1.5 year period, none of them really helped enough to be worth the side affects. I didn't like not feeling like myself and the ups and downs as the drugs take affect and then wear off. Though, god damn it did feel nice to finally not feel the pain of ADHD for a few hours. I

I ended up dropping out, however, luckily a few years later I discovered Paleo. I now wake up at 5am every morning. I am writing a book in the mornings and I am a lead dev at a great company where I easily put in an 8-9 hour a day every day. (When I was in college I interned at Microsoft I couldn’t work for more than about 2 hours a day and I wouldn’t even stay on the campus for more than 4-6 hours out of the horrible pain of the boredom.) I would arrive at work around 10:30 am, take a 1.5 lunch and then leave by 2pm or 3pm and head back to my company provided apartment. I hated my self and it was horrible. Now, I am proud of my self and love doing 10-11 hour days of work (including the book). And I don’t take any drugs, I don’t even drink coffee or tea! Zero caffeine.

This person’s book http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp7E973zozc and listening to music is my caffeine. If I don’t feel like starting some work, I remember that "doing the things I don’t feel like doing is the only way I will get the things I want". I then put on my headphones and listen to music that pumps me up. After a few minutes I get into my work and have a hard time remembering to stop for lunch.

# Final Words

So if you think you have ADHD please try Paleo for 30 days, then eat a meal with a bunch of bread and sugar. See if you see an instant stark change in your mental make up. The easiest (so probably the most effective) way to eat Paleo for 30 days is to buy a bunch of meal sized Tupperware, each week go to costco and find some cooked meat (chicken, pulled pork, etc) with no sauces or added wheat. Just meat. Buy some different frozen vegetables (no white potatoes), buy some cooked sweet potatoes or squash, buy some fruit for snacks. Make your 14 lunches and dinners on Sunday. Put them in your fridge and bring your lunch to work. I also make scrambled eggs for 7 days on Sunday and put them in Tupperware. If you have prepped food you are much more likely to succeed against the temptations of cheating. Know: the first 5 days of taking sugar and grain out of your diet are going to be the hardest you will be hit with withdrawals. For some people this feels like getting the flu!

A good primer on the Paleo diet http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/paleo-diet-craze-pt-1

More info about Paleo (know this diet has become a fad, not all websites promoting the “pale diet” are actually promoting the real diet. I recommend, at least initially, only using Loren Cordain, PH.D as a source for information. His book “The Paleo Diet" is great. http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/paleo-diet-craze-pt-1



I would like to see less stigma attached to ADHD, and more attached to advocating unhealthy diets. The consensus by experts is that dietary saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for your health.

I would ask anyone trying to cure their ADHD, cancer, etc. to take a look at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturated_fat_and_cardiovascula...

and "Dietary Guidelines for Americans" http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/DGAs2010-PolicyDocument.htm


The latest peer reviewed research completely disagrees with you. This is the diet humans and our ancestors ate for 2.5 million years and up until the past 10,000 years. This is the diet you and I were evolved to eat. The most recent peer reviewed research shows that saturated animal fats are extremely healthy (1)(2) if they come from wild or grass fed animals.

Please read this response by Dr. Cordain (to a similar set of statements). "It is obvious that whoever wrote this piece did not do their homework and has not read the peer review scientific papers which have examined contemporary diets based upon the Paleolithic food groups which shaped the genomes of our ancestors.... five studies (1)(2)(3)(4)(5)(6)(7); four since 2007, have experimentally tested contemporary versions of ancestral human diets and have found them to be superior to Mediterranean diets, diabetic diets and typical western diets in regards to weight loss, cardiovascular disease risk factors and risk factors for type 2 diabetes.

The first study to experimentally test diets devoid of grains, dairy and processed foods was performed by Dr. Kerin O’Dea at the University of Melbourne and published in the Journal, Diabetes in 1984 (6). In this study Dr. O’Dea gathered together 10 middle aged Australian Aborigines who had been born in the “Outback”. They had lived their early days primarily as hunter gatherers until they had no choice but to finally settle into a rural community with access to western goods. Predictably, all ten subjects eventually became overweight and developed type 2 diabetes as they adopted western sedentary lifestyles in the community of Mowwanjum in the northern Kimberley region of Western Australia. However, inherent in their upbringing was the knowledge to live and survive in this seemingly desolate land without any of the trappings of the modern world.

Dr. O’Dea requested these 10 middle aged subjects to revert to their former lives as hunter gatherers for a seven week period. All agreed and traveled back into the isolated land from which they originated. Their daily sustenance came only from native foods that could be foraged, hunted or gathered. Instead of white bread, corn, sugar, powdered milk and canned foods, they began to eat the traditional fresh foods of their ancestral past: kangaroos, birds, crocodiles, turtles, shellfish, yams, figs, yabbies (freshwater crayfish), freshwater bream and bush honey. At the experiment’s conclusion, the results were spectacular, but not altogether unexpected given what known about Paleo diets, even then. The average weight loss in the group was 16.5 lbs; blood cholesterol dropped by 12 % and triglycerides were reduced by a whopping 72 %. Insulin and glucose metabolism became normal, and their diabetes effectively disappeared.

The first recent study to experimentally test contemporary Paleo diets was published in 2007 (5). Dr. Lindeberg and associates placed 29 patients with type 2 diabetes and heart disease on either a Paleo diet or a Mediterranean diet based upon whole grains, low-fat dairy products, vegetables, fruits, fish, oils, and margarines. Note that the Paleo diet excludes grains, dairy products and margarines while encouraging greater consumption of meat and fish. After 12 weeks on either diet blood glucose tolerance (a risk factor for heart disease) improved in both groups, but was better in the Paleo dieters. In a 2010 follow-up publication, of this same experiment the Paleo diet was shown to be more satiating on a calorie by calorie basis than the Mediterranean diet because it caused greater changes in leptin, a hormone which regulates appetite and body weight.

In the second modern study (2008) of Paleo Diets, Dr. Osterdahl and co-workers (7) put 14 healthy subjects on a Paleo diet. After only three weeks the subjects lost weight, reduced their waist size and experienced significant reductions in blood pressure, and plasminogen activator inhibitor (a substance in blood which promotes clotting and accelerates artery clogging). Because no control group was employed in this study, some scientists would argue that the beneficial changes might not necessarily be due to the Paleo diet. However, a better controlled more recent experiments showed similar results.

In 2009, Dr. Frasetto and co-workers (1) put nine inactive subjects on a Paleo diet for just 10 days. In this experiment, the Paleo diet was exactly matched in calories with the subjects’ usual diet. Anytime people eat diets that are calorically reduced, no matter what foods are involved, they exhibit beneficial health effects. So the beauty of this experiment was that any therapeutic changes in the subjects’ health could not be credited to reductions in calories, but rather to changes in the types of food eaten. While on the Paleo diet either eight or all nine participants experienced improvements in blood pressure, arterial function, insulin, total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol and triglycerides. What is striking about this experiment is how rapidly so many markers of health improved, and that they occurred in every single patient.

In an even more convincing recent (2009) experiment, Dr. Lindeberg and colleagues (2) compared the effects of a Paleo diet to a diabetes diet generally recommended for patients with type 2 diabetes. The diabetes diet was intended to reduce total fat by increasing whole grain bread and cereals, low fat dairy products, fruits and vegetables while restricting animal foods. In contrast, the Paleo diet was lower in cereals, dairy products, potatoes, beans, and bakery foods but higher in fruits, vegetables, meat, and eggs compared to the diabetes diet. The strength of this experiment was its cross over design in which all 13 diabetes patients first ate one diet for three months and then crossed over and ate the other diet for three months. Compared to the diabetes diet, the Paleo diet resulted in improved weight loss, waist size, blood pressure, HDL cholesterol, triglycerides, blood glucose and hemoglobin A1c (a marker for long term blood glucose control). This experiment represents the most powerful example to date of the Paleo diet’s effectiveness in treating people with serious health problems."

References

(1) Frassetto LA, Schloetter M, Mietus-Synder M, Morris RC, Jr., Sebastian A: Metabolic and physiologic improvements from consuming a paleolithic, hunter-gatherer type diet. Eur J Clin Nutr 2009.

(2) Jönsson T, Granfeldt Y, Ahrén B, Branell UC, Pålsson G, Hansson A, Söderström M, Lindeberg S. Beneficial effects of a Paleolithic diet on cardiovascular risk factors in type 2 diabetes: a randomized cross-over pilot study. Cardiovasc Diabetol. 2009;8:35

(3) Jonsson T, Granfeldt Y, Erlanson-Albertsson C, Ahren B, Lindeberg S. A Paleolithic diet is more satiating per calorie than a Mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischemic heart disease. Nutr Metab (Lond). 2010 Nov 30;7(1):85

(4) Jonsson T, Ahren B, Pacini G, Sundler F, Wierup N, Steen S, Sjoberg T, Ugander M, Frostegard J, Goransson Lindeberg S: A Paleolithic diet confers higher insulin sensitivity, lower C-reactive protein and lower blood pressure than a cereal-based diet in domestic pigs. Nutr Metab (Lond) 2006, 3:39.

(5) Lindeberg S, Jonsson T, Granfeldt Y, Borgstrand E, Soffman J, Sjostrom K, Ahren B: A Palaeolithic diet improves glucose tolerance more than a Mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischaemic heart disease. Diabetologia 2007, 50(9):1795-1807.

(6) O'Dea K: Marked improvement in carbohydrate and lipid metabolism in diabetic Australian aborigines after temporary reversion to traditional lifestyle. Diabetes 1984, 33(6):596-603.

(7) Osterdahl M, Kocturk T, Koochek A, Wandell PE: Effects of a short-term intervention with a paleolithic diet in healthy volunteers. Eur J Clin Nutr 2008, 62(5):682-685.

View full response for all references https://www.facebook.com/notes/the-paleo-diet/dr-cordains-re...


There seems to be a methodological issue where you are copy-pasting arguments that support your view, without noting that other sources, including the one's I linked, in turn make arguments against the ones you have copy-pasted.

I think that the consensus of medical experts trumps a minority opinion, and that is my basis for making this decision.

I don't have time to read 1000s of articles or summaries, and even if I did, I don't see how my judgement on the matter would be superior to an expert's. Similarly, you are not actually addressing the sources I quote, and so you are making an appeal to authority, just a weaker form of authority.

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet#Intervention_s... for a critical discussion of the studies you mentioned.


The research backs up the claim that saturated fats are good for you "in regards to weight loss, cardiovascular disease risk factors..." I don't see how there are any conflicts.

Honestly, this is why I am glad I made these statements with a throw away account. Look your are obviously not interested in having your mind changed. You can keep eating the food that has lead to more heart attacks and other food related deaths per person than any other time period. Or you could be willing to learn a little. Learn that the latest peer reviewed research shows grain and sugar are causing the epidemic we are in. Research that shows saturated fats are what our ancestors ate [1] and are extremely healthy (if coming from wild or grass fed sources, thus high in omega 3 fats).

[1] http://thepaleodiet.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/CRC-Chapt...

At the very least do you not agree with the author of Brain Grain? http://www.drperlmutter.com/about/bio/

"David Perlmutter, MD, FACN, ABIHM is a Board-Certified Neurologist and Fellow of the American College of Nutrition. He received his M.D. degree from the University of Miami School of Medicine where he was awarded the Leonard G. Rowntree Research Award for best research by a medical student. After completing residency training in Neurology, also at the University of Miami, Dr. Perlmutter entered private practice in Naples, Florida."


This is very intriguing, thanks for posting. I might give this a shot soon. I'd very much like to not need to take amphetamines to be able to focus.


Same experience with me. As soon as I stopped eating sugars and processed foods and cheap grains, I felt like 200% better. I think clearer, I sleep better, I can focus, I'm not bored ever.

I find it perplexing that we accept eating substances called medications affects brain chemistry, but eating substances called food doesn't.


I wouldn't necessarily say the "processed" nutrients did it. How does fruit affect you? The change in sugar-content of your diet indicates that you are most likely pre-diabetic, hyperglycemic tendencies, hence sugar makes you tired.

A healthy diet can do wonders.


I eat between 1-2 apples and a banana a day. From what I can remember they have never had the strong affect of having a slice of cheese cake (with out the bread) or other deserts have. They affect me in maybe a subtle way but not enough for me to take notice. I should probably try eating like 10 apples and see if its enough sugar to put my brain in ADHD mode. But honestly, I really try to avoid doing that. I really, really hate having my brain in ADHD chemistry mode. I would rather have both my ankles throbbing in pain from sprains for the whole day than be in ADHD mode. At least I could get work done (albeit it in a wheel chair). Though, I would rather be in ADHD mode than have a migraine, so that tells you somewhat where on the pain scale it sits for me.

After writing this post yesterday, I went to the store and bought some gluten free bread (rice and potato flower) for the first time. I had a few pieces and it didn't seem to affect me much if at all. So even though I eat pure paleo, it might really just be the Gluten and Sugar (in decent quantities) that do me in.

I haven't really tried a bunch of experiments because I know what is safe for me. And the idea of trying something that will ruin my whole day (or longer) is not a fun prospect. So I stay pretty conservative and eat pure paleo for the most part. I cheat and eat cheese or beans some times. They don't seem to affect me.


I see, well whatever works man. I enjoy sugar but I find that I need enough protein to balance it out, otherwise I start feeling like crap. Sugar is a dangerous nutrient, most people don't realize that. It's good that you got your diet in order, a lot of people go through their whole life without finding out what makes them tick. Kudos man.


One more note: When you are in a room with an air conditioner running, if after a few hours someone asked you do hear that air conditioner, most people would say no. If the air conditioner suddenly turned off everyone would notice how loud the air conditioner really was the whole time. This is similar to what ADHD was like for me. It wasn't until it was gone and then suddenly back that I finally started to grasp its real affects on me.

I spent most my life post high school life wondering if I had "ADHD". In high school I was clueless. I didn't know any one who had ADHD or about the disease. I just assumed I was super lazy. So even though I was feeling horrible everyday, because it was everyday: I couldn't compare it to anything. I just assumed I was feeling normal.

In fact there was so much stigma about "Is ADHD real, do I really have it?". Even after I was able to turn it off and then back on, at first I really didn't accept that it was that different. I was in major denial (I wanted to take responsibility for my laziness and not blame some "fake" disease). It wasn't until I was on Paleo full time for about 6 months and then I had a piece of bread and the horrible feelings started rushing back into my brain that I started to finally admit to myself that ADHD is real and that I have it.

And then my girl friend started to point out and get upset every time I cheated on Paleo because I would turn in to "Mr. Hyde" being rude, immature and very annoying. At first she hated the idea of me trying some fad diet. She loves cooking and hated what this change meant. Now she is my biggest cheerleader. Partially for my happiness, but to a large degree for her own.

So I can I can identify with a lot of the people who are advocating ADHD isn't a real disease, I was there. I can also say that attitude of shaming people (blaming the persons attitude, will power and not their brain chemistry), really fucked me up, to the point where I couldn't admit to myself how real the disease is for a long time. I went on and off Paleo for about 8 months before I finally, told my self this helps enough to be worth while. From my relapses, I can tell you it helps me in HUGE, HUGE way. I was in a lot of denial.

I also want to point out for me it was hard to admit that Paleo actually proved I had ADHD (I am not just super lazy). Years of beating myself up made this very hard. So if you do decide to try paleo, do it for at least 30 days. Keep a journal of how you feel at least once a week and then on the 30th day eat a bunch of bread, milk and sugar and journal how you feel. Try to get some work done. If you actually have the same allergy I have, the sooner you fully accept it the sooner you will start to heal the emotional wounds.




Consider applying for YC's Summer 2026 batch! Applications are open till May 4

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: