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For some reason watching that and thinking about what was behind a lot of those lines moving reminds me of Carl Sagan's "Pale Blue Dot":

Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Blue_Dot



Considering the pale blue dot is all humanity has ever lived on what land you control seems very important to me.


I was more thinking about all the death and misery involved in moving those borders...


Borders are something to fight for, they serve no real benefit for anyone. It is nationalism, racism of sorts.

Claiming a land that been there for millions of years and will be "your property" for 40 odd years. Shoot on sight.

But what drives human to hold onto such failing concept? Fear, anger, pride, instability?


That's not entirely true. They have/had benefit for rulers. They serve to indicate which people one feudal lord can tax and press into his army, and which people shall be pressed into his neighbours army and pay him taxes.

At the very least, when they're marked in treaties, they prevent some confusion and conflicts and give rise to others, depending on the agenda of the rulers involved.

So they certainly have a use for someone, albeit a tiny but highly visible minority.


That I must agree on, useful they are.

As torture equipment or napalm also serves a purpose.


Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but I agree. Some people feel these things are useful, as damaging as they are to the vast majority of those involved.


It can be sarcastic, but it is true and I don't think this should ever be discussed with sarcasm.

One goes to drop bombs on someone else house because he is told so, nor man who drops the bombs nor family below benefits from it.

But I can't find solution, humanity is defective in my eyes, almost fatally defective, it will survive and go on, but must come to absurd and dramatic turn that will bring it to knees and you have start again. And repeat, repeat repeat.

Either I accept this as a part of the game or go insane.


Because we haven't figured out a better way to organize society, let alone get people to adopt it. I hate all these "look at the human race doing irrational things, why can't they just do X instead?" Because the human race isn't a single intelligent agent. It's a bunch of individuals with different ideas, goals, and cultures. Everyone is trying to get to their own local optima. It's amazing our species manages to organize and coordinate effectively at all at such a large scale.

If you got rid of borders tomorrow, then what? What government should right the laws? Should we have one world government? No government? What type of government? Etc.


It is not a failing concept, it is the basis of all Western civilization. If you think there would be less violence and suffering without clear boundaries you are mistaken.


Isn't it because there weren't clear boundaries that there was so much war? Anyway, if people wish to muddle up a boundary for their own purposes, they will always find a way, claiming the will of the people to belong to a different country for example.

Fundamentally, a nation state in the modern era is an administrative region and a form of identity. As a form of identity, it is very weak, because identity is a multi-faceted thing that cannot be reduced to as narrow a dimension as "country". As administrative regions, they have shown they prevent the efficient management of global resources by putting national interests before human interests.

The notion of an independent nation-state is an outmoded concept in a globalized world. We need to move to a single global democracy. It's the only feasible form of government at this point when you look at the continuing inability of the big global players to agree on stuff that matters and avoid new armed conflicts.


>We need to move to a single global democracy.

China and Russia would balk. But it hardly matters, the EU can't even agree.




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