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For those who aren't familiar with Aesop Rock, I'd invite you to give him a listen sometime. His earlier albums, in particular, have been very influential to me in many ways. Both in my artistic and professional careers.

From comments on the conditions of the working man and the condition of feeling trapped in a "j-o-b"[1]:

   "Now we the American working population
   Hate the fact that eight hours a day
   Is wasted on chasing the dream of someone that isn't us
   And we may not hate our jobs
   But we hate jobs in general
   That don't have to do with fighting our own causes
   We the American working population
   Hate the nine-to-five day-in day-out
   When we'd rather be supporting ourselves
   By being paid to perfect the pastimes
   That we have harbored based solely on the fact
   That it makes us smile if it sounds dope"
To storytelling masterpieces regarding living and dreaming[2]:

   "Look, I've never had a dream in my life
   Because a dream is what you wanna do, but still haven't pursued
   I knew what I wanted and did it till it was done
   So I've been the dream that I wanted to be since day one!"
Aesop Rock takes language and linguistics to entirely different levels than one might expect from the single genre that is hip-hop. He even challenges himself and the listeners, playing fantastic word games, for instance re-using the letters L, S, and D in odd and rhythmical ways after a mention[3]:

   "Lazy summer days
   Like some decrepit landshark dumb luck squad dog lurks sicker deluded
   Last sturdy domino lean's secluded
   Don't let stupid delusions lesson super-duty labor students
   Dragnet lifer solutions
   Daddy loved sloppy dimensions like son-daughter links
   Such determinated lepers, successfully disheveled
   Little soliders developed like serpents despite life sentence ducking
   Lemmings
   Some don't like sobriety's dirty lenses
   Some do"
And then there are just incredible gems that stick with you like[4]:

   "I don't flick neeedles like my sick friend
   I don't march like Beetle Bailey through a quick trend
   I don't frequent church's steeples on my weekend
   And I don't comment if you formulate a weak Zen"
There's a lot to explore from Aesop Rock. Should you find this type of hip-hop interesting, a decent place to start is with the label you can find these songs on, Definitive Jux[5]. Incredible talent has been on and off that label over the years. So much good stuff.

[1] - "9-5ers Anthem" - http://rapgenius.com/Aesop-rock-9-5ers-anthem-lyrics

[2] - "No Regrets" - http://rapgenius.com/Aesop-rock-no-regrets-lyrics

[3] - "The Greatest Pac-Man Victory in History" - http://rapgenius.com/Aesop-rock-the-greatest-pac-man-victory...

[4] - "Save Yourself" - http://rapgenius.com/Aesop-rock-save-yourself-lyrics

[5] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitive_Jux



I don't know man, I listened to a couple of the tracks and he definitely has lyrical skills, and I like some of the tracks, but the quotes you selected aren't very good at all, at best obvious topics with all the insight of a million college freshmen. Having said that I like "None Shall Pass" that has a really great sound.

To be entirely honest, I love rap, but not for any insight rappers have in world affairs, but for their lyrical ability. Some are very good at providing unique ways to describe their own insights about their lives but when someone starts rapping about world problems I just want to shut my brain off because it's usually pretty banal. Then with my brain off I can still at least enjoy the way the rap sounds.


> at best obvious topics with all the insight of a million college freshman

Art is weird like that.

We have to remember that it isn't all about needing to learn something new from the experience. Sometimes it's just about getting something out of it.

Looking over the lists of the best songs of all time[1], we can see that there aren't a lot of incredibly insightful songs. Quite frankly, most speak of your "obvious topics" and probably don't talk about them with any sort of magnificent linguistic grandeur.

But that doesn't mean they aren't great songs and don't offer their listener an experience worth sharing and repeating for generations.

[1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_considered_the_be...


Often songs - like poetry - often aren't insightful exactly, but provide a good way of communicating the emotions connected with an experience or concept.

Take Smells like Teen Spirit" (which appears on 6 of the lists linked to above): The lyrics are not particularly insightful (almost deliberately), but it captures the goalessness of disaffected youth like no other song.

Nothing Compares 2U* really is unrequited love.

Then there's U2's One (3 lists) which has lyrics that mean different things to different people, and music that can support multiple interpretations[1].

(Of course, some songs on those lists are just entertaining because they are perfect pop ("Billy Jean", "Like a Virgin") or funny ("Baby got Back")

[1] http://www.pophistorydig.com/?tag=u2-one-song-history


I think the point is that giving lengthy quotes of the lyrics is a little pointless if the merit in the art isn't the insight of the lyrics.


I think the term you're grasping for is "Lowest Common Denominator."


I don't disagree that there is a lot of catering to the lowest common denominator in the music industry, both in pop music and the "best songs of all time" lists.

However, I think the parent post has a point. (Now, I'm having a hard time figuring out how to effectively articulate it) The point of music isn't necessarily an insight. Listening to music is an experience, which is about how it makes you feel. Sometimes part of that is giving an insight, sometimes it isn't. Often, it is about combining an idea or concept with a performance or presentation; the idea/concept doesn't need to be insightful to be effective.


exactly. if you connect with art based on how "obvious" you find it, you are going to have a very shallow and boring art career.

sometimes being obvious is what makes it art in the first place. hell, some art needs to be obvious.


The inverse of broad appeal is the concept of The Long Tail, where there's a vast array of niche artists, that appeal to a small number of people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Tail

There's a book by the same title, written by Chris Anderson:

http://www.thelongtail.com

Prior to the internet, when advertising and media outlets were centralized, and retail businesses were distributed geographically, it was very difficult to gain a large following with niche appeal. But now that the internet has inverted the scenario, with decentralized, global exposure, and centralized market places like ebay and amazon, niche artists have a fighting chance at becoming famous within their genre.

In other words, it used to be that the only way to catch some exposure was to appeal to centralized broadcasting networks, and they only took chances on performers who were low risk. Now, with the internet, risk doesn't really matter, and mass appeal is literally measured by the size of your following. The larger your following is, by default, the more compromises you'll have made to appeal to everyone following you.

If you capture 1/2 the world as your audience, then you appeal to a broader, and more diverse audience, which has less in common with each other member of your audience, than if you managed to capture 1/4 the world. Getting half the world to agree on something, as opposed to creating something that three quarters of the world cannot relate to.

So, Aesop Rock raps about hating your boss, and many people say: "Gee, yeah, I hate my boss too! This guy's awesome!", but Kool Keith raps about Kenworths with wings, and lots of people are like: "Is he weird?" because lowest common denominator.


There isn't a doubt in my mind that if someone came along and said what the actual grand structure and meaning of reality is, most people on the Internet would dismiss it as college stoner thoughts out of hand.


I don't know, maybe it's because I didn't grow up in HackerNews social circles, but I always felt like I was the only one who thought the concept of a "dream job" was disgusting, and hated jobs in general. I think I'll probably enjoy that song even if me ane Aesop aren't the only two people to feel that way.


listen to the album 'Labor Days'

If you like this abstract hip hop then I highly suggest you delve into the artist MF DOOM.


Aesop is an excellent lyricist. In fact all the MCs on the Rhymesayers label are very talented: Brother Ali, Slug (of Atmosphere) etc.

One MC whose vocabulary always leaves me taken aback is RA Scion, who has been part of the group Common Market. Their song, "My Pathology" [0] is a shining example:

    "Below the terra ferma's the murmur of many men
    Resonatin' the predication of RA's eponym
    It requires a higher degree of thought to transmit
    Elevate above the base and retrace the semantics
    Incommensurately we've been held incommunicado
    From commoner to commodore – they breed bravado
    I exercise authority over the lesser ranks
    We rally and tally up at the shores of the West Bank"

[0] http://lyrics.wikia.com/Common_Market:My_Pathology


Thanks for mentioning Slug. It'd be interesting to see where he (and Bus-Driver) came in on the vocab scale.


Slug, unsurprisingly, wouldn't be very high [0]. I've always felt like nearly every rapper he's associated with is great, but he's kind of mediocre.

I don't see any data on Busdriver, but I imagine he'd fare better.

0 - http://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/24nw9p/rapp...


I'd like to also recommend Stones Throw Records for those just getting into this realm of music.

MF DOOM is my favorite lyricist


While I wasn't familiar with the label as such (I was surprised at Madlib/Otis Jackson being featured so prominently) the recent documentary "Our Vinyl Weighs a Ton: This Is Stones Throw Records" is highly recommended for those that want to get a glance at what the label is all about.

And for those that like both poetry and rap, I suggest these two artists (in every way opposite, yet similar): the legendary Gil Scott-Heron: "We Beg your Pardon":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDCfEkopryo

And young Kate Tempest (here with Canibal Kids):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUEsihgq8zU

I'm also partial to "the Streets", RZA and a lot more "mainstream hip-hop".


thanks for the recommendations!


You're most welcome. And thank you for the thanks -- it wasn't entirely given that anyone would read them and enjoy them...

[edit: unless you're profile page is meant to be a riddle/tease, I think you might want to put some actual contact info in there... Just, saying (no, I don't have a start-up for you (yet anyway) :-) ]


Interesting comment about the L, S, and D usage and rhyming. I was particularly surprised by the effort that goes into Eminem's rap that I just contributed to "good flow". Some of that effort explained in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooOL4T-BAg0


A friend of mine's theory is that Eminem has a great flow because all the vowels sound alike in his Detroit accent.


Eminem has spoken about how much he enjoys playing with words. One of the techniques he's mentioned is taking two words that don't rhyme and bending the sound of each about half way towards each other.


Easily one of my favorite artists. I'm sad they didn't include more Rhymesayers Artists. I think a lot of them would be to the right of this scale. Guys like P.O.S. and Brother Ali are also very versatile.


+1 for Brother Ali, love his back story too.


Also shocked Atmosphere is not on this list!


Oh my - thanks for the heads up on this i had not heard Atmosphere before!


Found a video rendition of aesop rock's "no regrets" pretty inspiring: https://vimeo.com/14583499

" 1-2-3, that's the speed of the seed

A-B-C, that's the speed of the need

You can dream a little dream or you can live a little dream

I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it"


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VNX4spGpIOc&feature=kp I'd recommend Aes' Zodiacpuncture for vocab speed and depth. He basically wins the ranking on that track alone.




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