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As soon as I have "infinite IQ" flowing from a socket on my wall, I'll attach an agentic harness to it and order it to take over the world for me before worse people get the same idea.

We are talking about a world here where humans are entirely out of supply chain. Rocks in your analogy rather than grass or rabbits.

The newly useless humans can trade with each other eventually reinstating the exact same economy we have now. That's of course as long the AI or whoever controls it doesn't need the same resources. Which they probably will.

>The newly useless humans can trade with each other

Why would they when the machines can undercut anything while offering higher quality


Because there won't be anything of value they can offer to the machines in exchange.

> when the machines can undercut anything while offering higher quality

I mean that is exactly the point: the free markets operate in such a way that for an average person situation just can't get worse. They will get their goods and services one way or another. Either from machines or from each other.


Trade what exactly? Unemployed urban dwellers or landless peasants do not control any means of production and so cannot produce anything to trade.

> Unemployed urban dwellers or landless peasants do not control any means of production and so cannot produce anything to trade.

It is fascinating how leftist discourse go from "The bourgeoisie are the biggest parasites on the body of society" to "without them society can't even wipe their own ass" and back, often during one dialogue.


Russia used to be quite advanced in information technology. At one point they prided themselves on being one of only four nations with Internet-scale search engines IIRC. Their little military operation already cost them lots of talent. And now they are actively losing infra too. Nice.

Yep, most of talent has left

Could you elaborate? What does this mean?

Edit: thanks for answers, this helps.


I am a top Russian CS degree alumna (HSE). I left Russia even before the war, but now most of my uni peers live and work abroad (US, EU, UK, Serbia, Armenia, Georgia, etc.). It is similar for the alumni of the other top universities there. And we made the right choice, both ethically and financially/career-wise, imo.

> both ethically and financially/career-wise, imo.

And, most importantly, you weren’t sent to the slaughterhouse and are still alive, thanks to your choice.


But there's also something to be said about people who are most motivated - running away.

IMO if we sent all the successful people back to Russia we might see some change as they will be the people who can pull off a revolution.

Instead they scattered and most don't even admit Russia is at fault.


Things will have to get a lot worse before russians will rise up. Young people that don't want to be tossed into putin's meatgrinder should be applauded, they make a hard choice and in a very concrete way act to show they will not be used.

> Things will have to get a lot worse before russians will rise up

Thats the thing. It's a nation that sort of embraces suffering.

And life hasn't got any meaningfully worse yet. Sure less vacation time and internet sometimes goes out. Otherwise it's kinda the same.


What's missing the most is the ability to organize.

You made the right choice, but importantly, this is a single generation of uni graduates. Each subsequent generation finds it harder to leave, and even if all who would could, there will still be enough human capital for the war effort and then some. For comparison, brain drain is even stronger in Israel, proportionally.

Big respect to each of you, its never easy to move away. Talk is cheap, 10x moreso on internet. Actions define a man / woman and their legacy and self worth.

> And we made the right choice, both ethically

FWIW, thank you for making this choice.


Thank you.

[flagged]


get well

huh?

There were several waves of Russians fleeing [0]

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_emigration_during_the_...

(This is incomplete, I think there is a fourth or a fifth wave, probably since about summer 2026.)


To add a bit, the brain drain has been going on since at least the end of the Soviet Union. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-wave_Russian_emigration

The Soviet Union arguably had some of world's finest engineering talent, but many of those most skilled left as soon as they could. Some of these, or their children, would go on to found startups.


> The Soviet Union arguably had some of world's finest engineering talent, but many of those [..]

.. were not Russians. USSR itself incorporated besides its native Russian talent 2 talent powerhouses of Ukraine and Armenia. Ukraine was the industrial powerhouse. Armenia was the USSR's silicon valley with hightest per capita of scientists in USSR. There is also Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania to consider, all of them active in relative high tech engineering.


All of those also had some amount of brain drain around that time.

It means you shouldn't invade your neighbours and conscript your young people or you will ruin your economy.

To be fair the nerds aren't sent to the front lines they get to work in a drone unit.

This war won't be over until the Russian army starts conscription in Moscow. The Czar will happily empty out the villages in Siberia and the Caucasus.


Drone units of occupation forces of Russia are primary taegets for AFU and due limited control distance for FPVs, Russian drone units are serving at the zero line, actually. So they are sent to actual front lines constantly (despite what Russia officially claims)

Yes, drone operators yield bigger score than the tanks! Bigger score means better equipment for your unit.

Most young people with a conscience (which is most people that like to read) leave to avoid conscription in an unjust war.

> Most young people with a conscience (which is most people that like to read) leave

No. I am sure that most young people with a conscience remaining. And it is mostly people without a conscience who leaving.

Russia is an extremely poor country, and literally governed by mafia. So generally it is impossible to leave Russia if you are not in top 10% by wealth, and it is almost impossible in Russia to get in those top 10% if you have conscience.


I don’t know about my sense of right and wrong (some shit’s pretty fucked up in my head for sure), but back in the day, before the war, it was possible to work remotely for for foreign companies and earn good money without selling one’s soul to the devil.

When Crimea was annexed the writing on the wall was clear, so I made The Grind a priority, got fairly close to the top 10% (the real gap is corruption and having connections; net worth is something you have one day and lose the next one), and was able to leave with enough cash to keep me more than just afloat. And almost everyone I knew who was able to outsource their skills and wasn’t blind to what was happening, did the same thing: grind, save, move, settle down, live.

And then, when the war escalated into a whole different phase, I know some folks left Russia with a lot less than what I had - not piss poor but nowhere close to the top 10%. They had it a lot rougher, but the danger to their wellbeing and lives was more immediate. So I know you’re wrong about wealth being a requirement for leaving - it’s a huge boon that makes it a lot easier, but it’s certainly not a hard requirement.


Software engineering is (was) an affordable way to climb the social ladder. It is not impossible at all. SWE could have easily earn 5k+ USD which is enough to leave.

I'm not from an even remotely wealthy family, not a mafia and was able to move to the EU. Not exceptional by any means.


> earn 5k+ USD which is enough to leave

Quick search says that it is like 1.5k+ that get Russians in top 10%. How do you imagine leaving country with salary that way less then that, when there is practically no way for you to get job permit or asylum, and you will get yourself deported the second your travel visa expired?

> Software engineering is (was) an affordable way to climb the social ladder

But aren't those only supports my point? Among those 10% who has access to immigration, how many there are software engineers? And except them (and mafia members) who else can afford to move out of the Russia?

> I'm not from an even remotely wealthy family

5k+ USD Software Engineer salary in the Russia is literally top 2%. Sounds rather exceptional by me


I'm not arguing that it's difficult for an average Russian. My point is that "conscience" or its absence has little to do with your ability to leave. You don't have to be "mafia" or some sort of hustler.

It's easier for some professions as they have more mobility and skills are transferable. But I've seen people from all sorts of backgrounds.

There are some folks involved into crypto/gambling/other questionable companies but I would say they're minority and rarely move to EU/UK/US because of regulations and taxes.


> I'm not arguing that it's difficult for an average Russian.

But I am. It is difficult for the top 10%. For an average Russian? Straight impossible.

> My point is that "conscience" or its absence has little to do with your ability to leave.

It has everything to do with the ability to leave. Russian economic system by design prevent economic mobility for those outside of mafia. You either work for mafia or you have no way to get in the top 10%, with very little exceptions such as software engineering.

> It's easier for some professions as they have more mobility and skills are transferable.

No, it is not. It was easier for software developer, sure, but that is it. For any other professions they does not have any additional mobility if we are not talking about some extremely demanded qualification such as pilots or top 1% brain surgeons.


> * So generally it is impossible to leave Russia if you are not in top 10% by wealth, and it is almost impossible in Russia to get in those top 10% if you have conscience.*

I know or have heard about quite a few people not in that 10%, who were able to leave. Not sanctioned; they had to more or less sneak out. Now they're mostly living in various countries in SE Asia, where they've arrived with only what they could carry with them. The more fortunate/skilled among them have been able to do knowledge work online, but others have had to take on odd jobs and live fairly roughly.

And of course I've also read about Russians fleeing to Central Asian countries, as well as eastern Europe, and to other places.


Russia is an extremely rich country, in natural resources and potential. But the governing class is worse than a mafia because mafia does not lead senseless wars outside of its territory while making their own (mafia) people worse off.

Your point is a good one but there are many people who left even when they couldn't really afford to and are stuck somewhere, but still won't return.


They may or may not. I wouldn't like to take on this bet.

Drone units require good eyesight, reflexes, spatial orientation etc. FPS gamers are the best match, not coders.

Those tend to correlate pretty well though.

I hope the MAGA folk threatening Canada take note.

The plan for Canada is clearly to buy enough Quislings to force a secession vote.


They invaded the whole world already. I hope Canda be prepared for the worst

The Russian economy is absolutely ruined. The US economy is stronger than ever. For the average peasant, life is unbearably expensive in both.

The US economy became so strong that it cannot do without Russian diesel?

But it means exactly the opposite. For some reason everybody thinks that for people (or even for only one man) who make decisions, Russian economy, talented people, and datacenters has great value or something.

But the only thing that matters is to remain in power. And invading your neighbors country have get those people exactly that.


it worked well for USA and many other nations tho

just neighbours?

> just neighbours?

Within the narrow scope of this discussion, yes. Ukraine would have a harder time hitting data centers around Moscow if they didn’t share a land border.


Just neighbours, otherwise people might draw awkward comparisons to certain other warmongering nations.

But then again, American soldiers are not dying in that war the way Russian do. That would be different in war against neighbhood nation where you cant hide purely behind technology.

> awkward comparisons to certain other warmongering nations

What Russia is doing in Ukraine is closer to America in Vietnam or Israel in Gaza than anything even Trump has done recently. And I doubt you’ll find many on this forum defending even the latter.


Casualty count for entire Vietnam campaign for US is like two weeks at the current burndown rate for r-sia

Why are people avoiding spelling "Russia"?

Russians are avoiding to mention that Russia is at war(or military conflict, as officially it is still special operation) like this Muromec, as that is punishable offence in Russia. It is rather crazy situation as machine of repressions is escalating and requires more and more blood and it can only repress Russians, so they have to be cautious, in case they have commented anything wrong. It is interesting mindgame from afar as most people would think how to escape from that madness but you can't really help people that have imprisoned mind...

They are victims to the same propagandist brainwash that garbles the spelling of Ukraine, makes fun of the language and assigns asinine pejoratives to Ukrainians in Russian state-controlled media.

I'm not really sure this answered the question

It’s reasonably close to the economic murder/suicide the US has caused with its rubbish crack at Iran

> reasonably close to the economic murder/suicide the US has caused with its rubbish crack at Iran

If we continued for three years and put troops on the ground.

The bombing campaigns are similar. But it’s not quite comparable given we didn’t actually raze Iran’s power plants, we just threatened to.

To be clear, I’m making no moral argument here. Just a comparison of tactics.


dont forget afghanistan, Iran Libya, Syria, etc etc. -_- none of these countries is doing well after their "liberation" or after their 'terrorists got bombed' or whatever wording (killed like dogs?) the current leader will have for it.

> dont forget afghanistan, Iran Libya, Syria

Out of these four, at least Syria is better off. Everything, literally everything is better than what the Assad regime was. The gruesomeness of Assad and his regime is on a level not seen since 1945.

Afghanistan was an utter failure of all of Western societies. Yes, we provided a generation worth of women with access to schools. But we never provided a way for Afghanistan as a country to stand on its own feet, instead we looked away while one half of the military didn't exist on paper and the other half raped children for funsies (look up "bacha bazi").

Libya... now that is mostly upon us Europeans. Ghaddafi, I'm glad this prick is gone, but again we didn't do anything to meaningfully help Libya grow, and by the time Putin began supporting oppositional warlords, the game was lost.

And Iran... oh dear god what a mess, dating back to the history of the US using Kurds for their aims and then letting them to die without support. This entire shitshow was a disaster from start to finish, even if the idea was noble - the Mullahs slaughtered tens of thousands of protestors the start of this year, it would have been incredibly unethical to just stand aside again.


> Everything, literally everything is better than what the Assad regime was. The gruesomeness of Assad and his regime is on a level not seen since 1945

Lolwut ? The Al-Qaeda head-chopper is in a distinct league of his own. He even had a US bounty on him before it was waived away. (US sponsored head-choppers are saintly you see)

He has already massacred thousands of civilians after he declared peace and took power last year. His presidency is Western appointed, not one elected. At the current rate of slaughter, within the next few years, he is going to make Assad like an innocent baby.

After a decade, he will be the next Osama bin Laden for commencing War on Terror 2.0 and his brand revamped into Evil #1 for upcoming generation of brainwashed US citizens.


syria is better off now in the sense that in Irak ppl also cheered for Sadam to go. There is yet to see what their future holds truly which in itself is an incredibly tedious place to be in as a civilian population.

these are still generations with much violence and suffering.

its hard to watch and for a long time even in academia etc. its been plain as day there are other approaches to bring people together than to force people together through violence, or to try and 'develop' places by forcing your own local developments on some remote peoples.


Feeling if Syria is better off really depends on what sect you are in. But the unhappy groups are being killed iff. Soon only the happy groups will remain.

> even if the idea was noble

The idea of nobly saving people is just “think of the children” on the nation-state level. It sounds great but gets used for every politician’s own ends.


> The idea of nobly saving people is just “think of the children” on the nation-state level. It sounds great but gets used for every politician’s own ends.

Well, there's the saying every nerd should know, "with great power comes great responsibility". We have to be caretakers of those who cannot defend themselves, but all we care about is making money, and that ruins the mission from the start.


> Afghanistan was an utter failure of all of Western societies

Before it was Afghanistan, Khorasan was a century-long trap for the Arab armies in the 7th century.

If the last two millennia have like a single lesson, it’s don’t invade Afghanistan.


I'm willing to bet you haven't been to a single one of these countries.

Only if you know nothing about it - then it is all the same.

> if you know nothing about it - then it is all the same

I made analogy. You collapsed three different situations to a singular “it”.


I was in Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan not too long ago (both countries just to the south of Russia, for those not savvy of geography). Met plenty of young russians who moved there recently. I didn't have to ask why. Many of them used to work in the tech sector, it's easy for them to find new work.

A lot of people who could get out of Russia after the war started, did get out.

Sadly, this applies also to Ukraine. No one in their right mind will risk their limbs for clique of oligarchs and mini-oligarchs. Coincidentally children of oligarchs and mini-oligarchs left both countries as well. They basically wiped out their male millenial generation entirely, as this demographics had it the most difficult to leave these countries.

> this applies also to Ukraine

It certainly does not. There is a huge and growing [1] (albeit still below ‘22 peak) tech outsourcing industry there.

Plus, likely Europe’s most advanced defense-industrial base for drones and, increasingly, missiles of all kinds. Being on the right side of a war works wonders for morale.

[1] https://itcluster.lviv.ua/en/gradual-market-stabilization-wh...


> It certainly does not.

Ukraine's estimated population in 2022 was around 40 million. Various numbers provided by UN officials to Ukrainian govt officials have at various times put Ukrainian population (in govt controlled areas) at 35 million [1], 32 million [2], 22-25 million [3]. This with adult men being actively blocked from leaving Ukraine.

[1] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russia-war-ukrainian-po... [2] https://kyivindependent.com/200-000-500-000-men-could-leave-... [3] https://www.novinite.com/articles/238511/The+Uncomfortable+T...


There are estimations that puts Russian population to 80 millions only. Probably population in Russia is slightly above that, but there is undeniable Russian migration out of country, that is not appearing in statistics with bias selection for smart young people(estimates that I've read couple of years ago put that Russian migration to 4 million) - which is nowhere comparable to Ukrainian situation, as these Russians are unable to make western companies to cooperate with Russia, or even return to Russia unlike what Ukrainians can do.

To be fair, I have never understood this obsession with Ukrainian numbers as some kind of proof that Ukraine is doomed. There are people that have sent their families abroad and returned to Ukraine to fight Russia. There are certainly also ethnic Russians that do not want to help Ukraine in this war, but on other side they do not want to join Russia either, as they would be sent to die for sure. Many reasons for many people what they do and why.

During WW1 my home country lost 50% of population, as many people escaped frontline - most of them returned and rebuilt everything.

I am very sure that Ukrainians after war will rebuild Ukraine - probably that will be another European center competing with Germany - unlike Russians, that are abroad now as they won't rebuild Russia - as Russia very surely will collapse. What would be built in the place of Russia is rather hard to tell right now, but I do not think that many Russians will want to return to that where they would be out of place in those new countries, just like they are out of place in modern Russia.


> estimates that I've read couple of years ago put that Russian migration to 4 million

I think a realistic figure is several hundred thousands. There is not so many rich Russians that can afford living abroad, and not everyone is a software developer.


I highly appreciate your fierce enthusiasm but nobody will come back to the ruined countries. No one below at least regional level oligarchy. The oligarchy will only consolidate and strengthen. They will bring in new people to replace the former native population, don't worry. Nationalism was only a poison intended for the (former) native population, its job is done. Russia will survive, Ukraine maybe will. Poland is not even at war and follows the same pattern - emigrants replaced by imported population, skyrocketing wealth inequalities.

That's a lot of word soup with no connective tissue or logical throughline.

Very strong argument you have there.

Many Ukrainians ( including men) are living in Europe.

I work for a Ukrainian product firm and interviewed around 50 people in the last quarter for in-office work. Some of them are migrants discouraged by european salaries where an entry-level IT professional can make as much as a waiter.

You can't really leave Ukraine (legally*) right now if you are in the conscriptable demographics (M 18-60), unless you have good reasons.

oh you can if you are younger than 23 and not in education. this exception initially started as "academic mobility" program - you had to somehow prove your intent to study before going abroad, I don't remember how - but then both govt and citizens realized that it's too much paperwork and impossible to organize properly, so the exception was generalized.

yeah, hating papers is our national trait at this point, given Diia and stuff XD


Why would "right now" matter if the war has been ongoing for 4.5 years? I live in Germany, many ukrainians moved here, had several coworkers and their families move.

Just after they gave nepo babies below age 26 enough time to leave the country.

Having spoiled nepo babies on the front lines might be good in principle but probably more trouble than it’s worth in practice.

This war should be fought on all sides between oligarchs and their nepo babies exclusively.

If we’re imagining what should happen, maybe imagine no war at all. Until then, practical reality matters more than class resentment, however justified.

You are ignoring oligarch children that actually are fighting and not to mention that Azov batallion was oligarch creation to defend their country

Majority has come back though after realization that the West does not really welcome Russians with open arms.

Lol, 100% of the people I know have not returned and are not planning.

And 100% I know have returned. Your point?

According to Bloomberg 45% of relocants have returned by 2024 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/05/02/russians-returning...

Russian sources state that that around 80% have returned. True number is probably somewhere in between.


Wtf… definitely not. Russian shill account exposed.

That anyone with a few brain cells and enough rubels has left the country

Ones who didn't are asking stupid questions...

Cyprus, Georgia, UAE

Among them also Dan Abramov I think.

Yeah but I assume vast majority simply works from remote for the same companies they did?

Russian payment systems are barely supported in the other world, so its kinda hard to work remotely and get paid in roubles

Fair point, but there are loopholes and IT people know how to use them. There was a YT video on the subject, iirc.

Those loopholes might be illegal. How do you pay taxes without specifying the source of funds?

I know a couple of people who do that, but unless you settled in a really cheap country (for Russians that would likely be Armenia or Kazakhstan), you would really struggle to make ends meet with a Russian salary. And IT-folks who are used to luxury in Russia do not like that :) Also in countries with structured laws for social security, residence permits, pensions etc., you will most likely be caught for doing shady things (not paying local taxes or not paying social contributions). And if you do pay them, you are even more financially screwed. E.g. in Germany an employed person who is not supported by a local employer in paying social security would give away well over a half of their salary. So… either you REALLY live a shady life / life in a “developing” country with no tax control or you have to integrate and find a local / unsanctioned job. Maybe not right away, but it has been >4 years, most people have done this already. There are really little incentives to stay employed in Russia. Of course, there are companies who moved themselves (ex-Yandex parts, Jetbrains, etc). But they are now registered / taxed / employing elsewhere. Even if operating partially in Russian language.

The talent has left but have you seen mass protests against Russian aggression in EU/US by those who left? I haven’t. And this is a big difference to the behaviour or Belarusians who fled - they are often seen across EU protesting against Lukashenko.

So the talent has left, but not because they disagree with Putin actions.


And do most Americans who leave the US condemn American soldiers for murdering a million Iraqis and continuing to colonize their country? At a certain point just not engaging in these pointless wars should be enough.

Most are probably too busy dissing the health care situation

What millions bro? It's arabs killing each other that raised the death count. You guys are brain broken

Lots of Americans were against the Iraq war, and I'd think expats were particularly likely to be (and the US did not kill a million Iraqis).

I have?

> On the first anniversary of the invasion, rallies took place in the main cities where Russian exiles settled, including Tbilisi, Vilnius, Berlin, Barcelona, Paris and London, with turnout in the hundreds. In Yerevan, protesters burned a picture of Putin.

> In November 2024, at least a thousand people marched through central Berlin behind Navalnaya, Yashin and Kara-Murza, with parallel rallies in cities including Prague, Vilnius, Yerevan, Lisbon and San Francisco.

> Another Berlin march followed in 2025, after the third anniversary of the full-scale invasion.

And not just EU/US but moreso in other countries, where the migration wave was much bigger, eg Georgia and Armenia; after those protests many Russians were banned from entering Georgia after a visa run, yet others continued protesting anyway. Just google it for christ sake?

Also to me, as a Russian immigrant, protesting from another country doesn't make a lot of sense.

Anyway, at this point your comments in this thread are pure ragebait and not worth spending time replying to.


Thank you. Getting out is one of the strongest forms of protest. At the same time, you likely still have family there and that alone would be a good reason to be careful. Even so, there are plenty of Russians abroad that still carry water for putin and those are despicable, more so because they clearly have access to all the information they could want and from their comfy new lives they call for more suffering for others.

> Also to me, as a Russian immigrant, protesting from another country doesn't make a lot of sense.

Thought the same.


Are you kidding? E.g. in Berlin there are major protests every couple of months. They are not destructive (why would we destroy Germany‘s infra and police?), so maybe you do not hear about them as much. But they are quite numerous and regular. Ideally they should be in Russia AND destructive, but most normal people fled, yes.

Does the fear of being poisoned have an affect on Russian ex-pats from being very vocal?

> have you seen mass protests against Russian aggression in EU/US by those who left?

What are you talking about? Just look at the amount of humanitarian visas getting by Russians. We like literally talking about hundreds per country on average (not hundreds of thousands, HUNDREDS). So participation in mass protests is like the fastest way to be deported back in Russia and get 8 years in jail.


EU is not deporting anyone for peaceful protests in front of Russian embassies or consulates.

Are you kidding or what?

EU is doing exactly that by denying humanitarian visas. Just look at absolute numbers of such visas.

For 90 percent of refugees from Russia if you participate in totally peaceful protest in front of Russian embassies, you will get yourself arrested, immediately deported, and will go straight to Russian jail for 10 years.

I did a quick search and what we get in example of Finland:

(https://meduza.io/en/news/2026/08/24/finland-has-deported-15...)

- 1k+ km land border with forests

- tens of thousands Russian survivors hunted by Putin crossing it

- only 186 per year granted asylum

- for everybody else any contacts with Finnish officials = deportation and jail

I think it is rather dangerous to peacefully protest in front of Russian embassies when near those embassies a lot of agents deployed to hunt Russians down and hand them down to Putin.


Strangely, the article you quoted does not mention those "tens of thousands russian survivors" applying for asylum in Finland (as only hundreds do each year). Are you sure you got your numbers right?

> Strangely, the article you quoted does not mention those "tens of thousands russian survivors"

So do you imply that if some article does not mention them, they are not exist or what?

> applying for asylum in Finland (as only hundreds do each year).

It is exactly because any contacts with the officials = deportation and jail. Chances for getting asylum are so small that only people with additional migration opportunities or with the connections with elites in the government are trying to go that way.


It's just that your claim of tens of thousands of russians crossing the border illegally sounds very strange to me, that's why I was wondering what your source for the number is. As such the claim sounds just as bogus as the idea that authorities in Finland are arresting people protesting outside russian embassy and deporting them.

> For 90 percent of refugees from Russia if you participate in totally peaceful protest in front of Russian embassies, you will get yourself arrested

Sorry, in which EU countries does participation in a peaceful protest get you arrested?


> Sorry, in which EU countries does participation in a peaceful protest get you arrested?

In all of them? Sorry, but are you really trying to deny that there are multi-tiered justice system for illegal aliens all across EU depending on their skin color, religion beliefs, or possession of Russian passport?


I am not trying to deny it, but I won't believe it without some evidence beyond bald assertion.

The problem is Russia still has enough talent willing to work and develop advanced weaponry like drones and their software.

Out of curiosity, which was the 4th nation besides the US and China?

Czechia, quite surprisingly. But that was some time ago now, there are probably more these days (and might have been even then, I think my source is a Yandex speaker at a conference)

Yes, it's Seznam.cz

I guess it's France with its Qwant engine. decent for coding and French (culture, language, or both) queries. didn't use it for much else tho

It's yet another Bing white label

poor russia[ns], lost so much because of all the genocide they're doing.

>> Russia used to be quite advanced in information technology

it really never was. apart from a few one-off examples they have nothing if interest and quality.


Yandex, Kaspersky, Telegram, Intellij (including Kotlin), Nginx, VK to name a few. All those are coming from Russia.

yes they can clone western companies.

very valuable, very high tech.

for nginx/intelij - you can find a few good examples in any country on earth.

does not make the country good in tech.


Kotlin the language is a clone of what? Clickhouse the database, Nginx the webserver are clones of what?

Yandex precedes Google.

Google was not the first western search engine.

Yandex is now Nebius. It's a lot in the news with AI.

The Yandex that stayed in Russia is a ghost of the past.


I did not realize Nebius is what Yandex was. Thanks.

They divided the old Yandex into the Russian Yandex and the Western/international Yamdex (Nebius). Cut ties, different owners, etc.


No. It was pretty evenly divided between the owners. But it is rumored that Arkady got only half of what he was owed legally. Russia and all that, the price to pay for leaving. That was the reason why he made anti-war statements only after the split. Oleg Tinkov made a statement after the invasion and was able to get out with only 5% of the real price of Tinkoff bank. But he has a very successful Plata bank in Mexico and Americas.

Nebius is more concentrated, Yandex is way more spread in what they do.


As I understand, Nebius is tiny compared to Yandex in Russia which has: a search engine, maps, an ad network, a taxi, a bank and contactless smartphone payment system, food delivery, with autonomous delivery robots actually operating in Moscow/SPb and not prototypes, a cloud, Amazon-like services, etc. Nebius has nothing of similar scale.

Doesn't seem tiny?

Nebius market cap is 57 billion.

Yandex is 65 billion.

Nebius focuses on AI infrastructure worldwide, Yandex focused on being a Google competitor in Russia ( if it survives it's DC's being destroyed).

Russias GDP is basically Italy.


Yandex robots are driving around Moscow and SPb delivering food to people. Where are Nebius robots? "AI infrastructure" means just that they rent out GPUs they bought for themselves and did not find a use?

Comparing GDP means nothing. Having larger GDP doesn't mean the country is stronger, it is just a number.

Also in this case, you are comparing not the GDP (actually produced goods and services) but a "market cap" which is a virtual number calculated by price of one share multiplied by share count. Yandex shares, I assume, cannot be traded internationally so the number means nothing. Yandex has a public report where one can find out their revenue.


Comparing GDP, the market cap and other financials make way more sense than judging companies by how many separate projects and directions they have their spoon in.

Sometimes it's better to diversify, sometimes it's better to concentrate. There is no better decision to concentrate than to do it during the AI hype.


I had fun writing code when I felt I'm growing from it or that it facilitates my knowledge and unique experience. The parts that I felt could as well be written by a robot were so hard I would miss deadlines unable to force myself to do them. For a brief period in 2025 we were in the happy spot when robots were good enough to do the robot thing and I could focus on the interesting parts. But now they are good enough for everything and it's depressing. I can still contribute meaningfully to the overall system and product design, but it seems we are couple of major modle releases away from that being no longer possible either.

You don't have to be for war to be instrumental in it. But Yandex isn't even just a Russian taxpayer which would be bad enough. It's been apprehended by the government and turned into a key element of its propaganda machine. It's literally one of the things that keeps Russia what it is. And using results from it? That's just insane. They are poisoned, and we actually know about it in detail thanks to a source code leak. If I wanted to see what the Russian propaganda is pushing today I can go to Yandex directly. But including it in my search results automatically?


I don't really rely on search engines including Yandex to feed me stories which could be political propaganda - I can readily rely on various news sites to do that. I also just want the results which are links to other sites which may or may not be politically biased.

I'm usually looking for information - generally as an aide to help recall old movies and songs etc, for device info, filling in broad blanks on new consumer everyday stuff I've not encountered that much or looking for precise troubleshooting diagnostic help often found in forums. Lately the main stay search engines are loathed to provide decent diagnostic queries with quality results from forum based help areas - most of the time I know stack exchange results should be higher in number or exist, as well there being a shortage of variety of other forums in the results. It's generally why for the harder queries I end back at Yandex.


While I agree with everything you write, Google results are equally poisoned. Yandex provides results which the US government censors. The only way we can currently get a full picture of the internet is using search engines oppositionally. Kagi does this using an amalgamation, and unfortunately that means using Yandex and other sources.

I would love to live in a world where governments were not censoring content.


Could you share with us some examples of search results provided by Yandex which the US government censors? What specific domains or sites does Yandex index and provide results on?


Of course. [Google provides a dashboard for exactly this.](https://transparencyreport.google.com/government-removals/go...) 275,597 named items for removal since 2011. You can download the report yourself. Content ordered for removal cover topics such as health all the way to copyright.

One major battle ground has been sci-hub. This is best described as a collective whose stated goal is to make science free for everyone rather than having it stuck behind a journal paywall. The entire journal industry is one giant scam, but I digress. U.S. laws have repeatedly been passed and tested, and Google has been repeatedly ordered to remove domains such as sci-hub.tw and sci-hub.cc, among many more.

This is far more expansive than scientific papers, of course, and extends to countless copyright adjacent websites. Sites which have been repeatedly targeted include YTS, FMovies, and AniWave (and their associated domains).

I should also expand my previous comment. Google doesn't just censor results which the U.S. government has requested. It very frequently censors results of its own volition. Whether for ideological or fiscal reasons. One litmus test I often use is to search for the Proud Boys. Their website(s) have long been censored for a variety of reasons, including "disinformation" and public safety. I can find their website on Kagi. I cannot find it on Google.

Whether by the government, or for ideological or fiscal reasons, when I search for information I expect to be given that information. Google is an unreliable source. They all are.


> One litmus test I often use is to search for the Proud Boys. Their website(s) have long been censored for a variety of reasons, including "disinformation" and public safety. I can find their website on Kagi. I cannot find it on Google.

Do you apply this same litmus test to far-left things which Google might have also removed, or do you consider the lack of Google listing the Proud Boys to be some sort of special and unique infringement on freedom of speech? I'm always quite suspicious when somebody cites something that is barely more rational than the ideology of Timothy McVeigh as something that deserves to be read by a wider audience. Do you also complain that your local Barnes and Noble doesn't stock a copy of the Turner Diaries?


> Do you apply this same litmus test to far-left things which Google might have also removed, or do you consider the lack of Google listing the Proud Boys to be some sort of special and unique infringement on freedom of speech?

I consider all censorship wrong. The reason I use the Proud Boys is because it was a well publicised incident and has been a reliable indicator of censorship since then. If you have left wing domains I could include in my litmus test I would be grateful. I'm sure that Yandex censors some of them, which is why I say above: the best way to circumvent censorship is oppositional use.

> I'm always quite suspicious when somebody cites something that is barely more rational than the ideology of Timothy McVeigh as something that deserves to be read by a wider audience. Do you also complain that your local Barnes and Noble doesn't stock a copy of the Turner Diaries?

What a remarkably fast progression from, "what is being censored?" to "here's why it's a good thing." I didn't claim Google has a responsibility to provide uncensored results. I and others are explaining that Google doesn't provide reliably uncensored results, and that that is why providers like Yandex are required to access an uncensored internet.


> Yandex are required to access an uncensored internet.

And if you can read Russian I'm sure you'd find that Yandex is suspiciously missing information about strongly anti-Putin Russians such as the recent writings of Garry Kasparov. Don't pretend it is some bastion of free speech. I still think it's extremely suspicious and very revealing that you immediately jumped to The Proud Boys as your first and best prototypical example of something that's being censored by Google.


> And if you can read Russian I'm sure you'd find that Yandex is suspiciously missing information about strongly anti-Putin Russians such as the recent writings of Garry Kasparov. Don't pretend it is some bastion of free speech.

And if you would do me the courtesy of reading my comments you would see that I am not claiming Yandex to be censorship-free. The exact opposite.

> I still think it's extremely suspicious and very revealing that you immediately jumped to The Proud Boys as your first and best prototypical example of something that's being censored by Google.

You must be easily alarmed. I find it revealing that you haven't provided any censored left wing content which I can add to my test. Instead of engaging with what I am writing, you repeat empty aphorisms and written tics which should best be contained to echo-chambers like Reddit and Bluesky.

Either way it seems you've given up any pretense of caring about the subject of censorship as it applies to search engines.


That's an interesting example.

I detest the Proud Boys for a wide variety of reasons and I really wish that they would just go away.

But if they exist on the web, then I want to have the unfettered liberty to find them on that web and see what they've got to say without having it digested, ruminated and filtered before eventually being regurgitated through someone else's mouthpiece.

Censorship restricts my ability to know my enemy.


It's well known that Yandex is good for finding piracy websites.


It was also very good during the pandemic. Google results at the time were extremely biased towards Western government narratives. Some mainstream articles which took a skeptical view on lockdowns and the virus orgin seemingly would not show regardless of how you tried to search them on Google.

Yandax on the other hand tended to be more neutral.


Isn't YouTube adequate for alternative results?

I just tested "flat earth" as a search on both Google and YouTube, and the results are quite distinctively different.


Downvoted you for this disgusting equation of alternative opinions to flat earth DBA bullshit.


  DBA most likely means “don’t believe anything” or “don’t believe anybody”
Just checking Yandex - it did give a better result for "flat earth" as a search with lots of great YouTube videos near the top. Wikipedia came in at the 10th result in the list so that was good too.

I'm sure Yandex welcomes malcontented revolutionary thinkers. To quote Yandex:

  Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me


DBA = discredit by association.


And yet, I somehow seem to be aware that 1337x.to exists without ever having used Yandex to find it...

I have no doubt that Russia is a free for all of finding pirated stuff online, since what US copyright holder is going to bother to even attempt to sue people in russia for something like hosting a website with direct download epub files of popular books?


?? You knowing one of the sites a search engine can find doesn't somehow invalidate that the search engine can find the sites.


> While I agree with everything you write, Google results are equally poisoned.

BSAB arguments are always invalid. "Both sides" are never equal.


You're right, but a fair accounting would probably find that Google is even worse. US misinformation and deception is paralleled only by the Mossad/IDF, who also has Google contracts.

It's entirely worth boycotting all of these companies, if only to protect yourself from their manipulation.


Most of my enjoyment came from the feeling that I'm learning and becoming more capable with every bit of new code I write. That has completely evaporated because agents are gaining ground on my formely exclusive abilities far faster than I can acquire new ones. No solution seems to be in sight.


My enjoyment is shifting from this to having a well designed, tested, good looking, and very usable hobby SW, with features I need and can play with or do fun or useful stuff with. :)

I can also work on very fun things with computers now, that I'd just not even think of previously. I just love the idea of the program, but I'm not interested in learning details of how to implement it. Last such thing is teaching computer to dance and improvise Bachata to music. :) Yeah, I can spend months on details of 3D, or physics simulation, or skeleton animation, or things like that, but that's not what I'm interested in. I'm interested in the dance aspects itself and matchin to music, and lead-follow simulation (where the computer plans the lead actions to some extent, and follow is just a reactive machine with some degrees of impovisational freedom) and all the details of how the actual skeletons are visualized on screen I literally can care less about. All I care about is impairing knowledge of freedom of movement of lead and knowledge of freedom of what can be led while hands are connected or visually by what follow can observe and lead can signal through intentional movement, and not how the program will execute this.

Nothing like that existed previously, and I would not be able to get to fun interesting things without wading throught shit ton of uninteresting parts. But now I within a span of 24 hours have something that I can have a base implementation of a 3D dance lead/follow emulator with weight transfer, balance skeleton joint lead-follow hand connection weight trasnfer and ground connection based emulator that I can paly with emulating the dance on top of, and I can focus on the actual dance/music conenction, and tiny details that make the emulated dance look fun, surprising, natural, and fit Bachata style and playfulness.


[dead]


Seek help.


I've tried to publish an app in Play recently to get a taste of the experience. And I must say the taste was sour. Contrary to the experience of many I was able to reach a real human about my problem, but the human was less helpful that an AI pointed at the documentation. The AI was at least able to unrestand the issue, while the human simply talked past me.


> Fact is, vibe-coded projects devolve over time into an unmaintainable mess.

Is it a fact though? Maybe my projects aren't ambitious enough, but about 6 months ago I stopped hitting the point where AI can't maintain what it has written. It's probably unmaintainable by humans, but that might be an increasingly irrelevant quality.


Here in Latvia, anything the government ever sends you of any importance is cryptographicaly signed. Not bulletproof, but that should be a baseline we demand in this age.


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