Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

>Racism against Americans is still racism.

It's unproductive to dismiss a factual claim as racist. You can simply show data that disproves the parent's claim and implicitly confirm their racist tendencies towards Americans rather than screeching "racism".



> In my own PhD program, the productivity of the Americans was much lower than the foreigners. That productivity led to discoveries that benefit everyone.

The original claim was an anecdote generalized to everyone. They are stereotyping millions of people based off a handful they have met.

It could be true. The reverse could be true. We don't have good data. Why assume that there are differences based on background?


The claim wasn’t factual, it was blatantly racist. How do you fight an unfactual claim with data? How would you prove that Americans were less or more productive than foreigners? These kinds of claims are not designed to be argued with data, they are simply designed to be decisive and hurtful.


> The claim wasn’t factual

Yes, it was. That is, it was a claim about a matter of fact.

> How would you prove that Americans were less or more productive than foreigners?

There's a number of possible operationalizations of productivity applicable to a Ph.D. program that are measurable and by which the issue could be addressed. Usually, the first thing to do would be to challenge the party making the dubious claim to both provide their operationalization and show data supporting the characterization.

It's quite possible that after that, the result would be that it would be fair to dismiss the claim as inadequately supported (although the mere fact that a single claim asserting a difference in performance based on nationality is inadequately supported does not, in and of itself, provide more than extremely weak evidence that the claim comes from racism.)


The party making the claim is using anecdotal evidence. They have no data. I do not think anecdotal evidence is good evidence for such a strong claim. This makes the claim an opinion and not factual. This is only my opinion.


> The party making the claim is using anecdotal evidence.

No, the party making the fact claim made a fact claim limited to a particular program they had been in, and has, as yet, neither provided evidence (or even an operationalization) for that claim not been challenged to do so.

> They have no data.

That may or may not be the case; it's perfectly fine to dismiss the claim due to lack of data, better to challenge the claimant to provide support for the claim. Calling it racism is as unsupported as the claim itself.

> I do not think anecdotal evidence is good evidence for such a strong claim.

The fact claim made was particularly limited (about productivity in one Ph.D. program—from which no further generalization was claimed), it wasn't a particularly strong claim. That said, sure, anecdotal evidence is inadequate to support it, but then, not even anecdotal evidence was provided, only the bare claim.

> This makes the claim an opinion and not factual.

A claim on a matter of fact doesn't become anything other than a fact claim because it isn't offered with adequate support.


The claim was:

> Second, the foreign students increase the schools' reputations and can collaborate with the faculty. Research is a public good.

Their evidence for the claim was personal experience.

A claim about a matter of fact is not a fact. A fact needs evidence. Otherwise it's just nonsense.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: